"Fair and legitimate chance at a target" (cont)

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Phantasm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You will always hit a dead end in rationalizing with people if you flat out say competition was never intended or isn't healthy for the server and its population. Fact is, many people enjoy the thrill of racing against runners or guilds to prep and engage targets. Straight up, that shit is a blast.

Many =/= Most and here is the problem.

[Phantasm]

The "many" could kill everything on the server without batting a lash. Saying its not fair or demanding change effectively silences their wants which isnt fair. Comprimise is the precursor to change. If you want to change anything you need to stop thinking that the server is meant for casuals. Find a comprimise that closes the gap between casual/hardcore by maintaining a fair ruleset. Anything less is unfair to most and anything more is unfair to many.

Also, how are pvp minded games not competitive? Our server may not be pvp per se, but thats how things work. Simply saying its not supposed to be like this doesnt mean its broken, just different. Everyone is free to join, the price of admission may be a bit higher than you want to pay.

I think too many people come across as scorned lovers on here. Your wants and concern are beholden to your grudges. As it is the raid scene is most welcoming to the casual way of life, more welcoming than it ever has been on this server. Instead of taking advantage of this many opt to demand more from the hardcore. Why should they lament? When youre camping PS did you say "Go ahead and take some of his spawns"? No you say camp taken. The thing is the camps have been available for all, you just have to get there first

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Phantasm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "many" could kill everything on the server without batting a lash. Saying its not fair or demanding change effectively silences their wants which isnt fair.

Sharing isn't fair. Got it.

[maskedmelonpai]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sharing isn't fair. Got it.

Yes, there is nothing inherently fair about sharing. Would you care to share your paycheck or wife with the good elfs of this p99 or your new home phinny?

And no, that doesn't mean sharing cant be fair, only that it is not necessarily fair. It is application dependent ^^

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sharing isn't fair. Got it.

Demanding blood from people who are willing to invest a lot of time kind of is

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Phantasm [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, how are pvp minded games not competitive? Our server may not be pvp per se, but thats how things work.

That's what were debating.... I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but "the way things work" is entirely optional to the server staff.

For example, why is it okay to single pull dragons to the zone in? That's the key thing to me that makes p99 nothing like classic EQ. Add in the ridicules raid "racing" rules and you're left with almost no one who thinks things are run well...except for the leadership of A/A. Not the masses that make killing those dragons possible mind you...just (some of) the leaders.

At least there was some fun when A/A was racing via batphone to kill the dragon first...now there isn't even that part.

And again, virtually no one has a lot of fun racing. It's not even 1%. Just because a few weridos do, doesn't make it a good solution.

I've been playing Counter-stike. And its fun even if you don't win a lot of the times. That's because it is a competitive game -- built for competition. If I were to suggest to my friends we all que together to kill bots -- no one would be interested. It's not that kind of game.

You don't even have to get into this hardcore vs casual thing. It's about whats fun. The vast majority of people agree the current ruleset is not fun. It would be nice if the staff would fix that. But it's their decision.

All I can do is not play until they do...which will probably be forever.

[bigjerry]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what were debating.... I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but "the way things work" is entirely optional to the server staff.

For example, why is it okay to single pull dragons to the zone in? That's the key thing to me that makes p99 nothing like classic EQ. Add in the ridicules raid "racing" rules and you're left with almost no one who thinks things are run well...except for the leadership of A/A. Not the masses that make killing those dragons possible mind you...just (some of) the leaders.

At least there was some fun when A/A was racing via batphone to kill the dragon first...now there isn't even that part.

And again, virtually no one has a lot of fun racing. It's not even 1%. Just because a few weridos do, doesn't make it a good solution.

I've been playing Counter-stike. And its fun even if you don't win a lot of the times. That's because it is a competitive game -- built for competition. If I were to suggest to my friends we all que together to kill bots -- no one would be interested. It's not that kind of game.

You don't even have to get into this hardcore vs casual thing. It's about whats fun. The vast majority of people agree the current ruleset is not fun. It would be nice if the staff would fix that. But it's their decision.

All I can do is not play until they do...which will probably be forever.

nice post I didn't read it

can someone tell me what A/A stands for?

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what were debating.... I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but "the way things work" is entirely optional to the server staff.

For example, why is it okay to single pull dragons to the zone in? That's the key thing to me that makes p99 nothing like classic EQ. Add in the ridicules raid "racing" rules and you're left with almost no one who thinks things are run well...except for the leadership of A/A. Not the masses that make killing those dragons possible mind you...just (some of) the leaders.

At least there was some fun when A/A was racing via batphone to kill the dragon first...now there isn't even that part.

And again, virtually no one has a lot of fun racing. It's not even 1%. Just because a few weridos do, doesn't make it a good solution.

I've been playing Counter-stike. And its fun even if you don't win a lot of the times. That's because it is a competitive game -- built for competition. If I were to suggest to my friends we all que together to kill bots -- no one would be interested. It's not that kind of game.

You don't even have to get into this hardcore vs casual thing. It's about whats fun. The vast majority of people agree the current ruleset is not fun. It would be nice if the staff would fix that. But it's their decision.

All I can do is not play until they do...which will probably be forever.

Hit me up on CS, Blooddrunk

[Metalopolis]

Brad McQuaid himself said during one of their Pantheon streams that EQ was never meant to be competitive.....And neither will Pantheon be. They're designed as games with the intended purpose COOPERATION not competition.

This was in relation to numerous questions they received about Pantheon's fully-open-world nature and how they plan to prevent specific examples of the problems related to the P99 raid scene.

[maskedmelonpai]

it all a matter of cattle vs wolves. Some like to hunt, to stalk, to chase. They're quick and powerful. Some prefer to just sit around and graze. They're slow and fat or small and quick, but prone to panic. im a cattle who like to run wit the wolves. sometimes I get chewed on, but I gum them up good and I just keep at it until I tire of it and return to grazing. all cattle are free to run with the wolves. They don't chew so much on the ones in their pack cause they know they're useful.

If you a confused cattle you can continue lamenting the torment of the graze, or you can let some wolves lead you to another spot. there might be some adventure along the way, but you can always return to you grass if you get bored with it. cattle can't kill dragons without wolves though. they too slow and not mean enough.