Einstein or Newton

[Toehammer]

I was going to post a response to Daywolf and Saludeen, addressing points one by one, but I just don't have time. I am getting a new postdoc in the lab next week, just got a new PhD student, and am trying to hire a research assistant. Instead, enjoy this fun video of a 2D representation of space(time) as a tool to understand orbits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTY1Kje0yLg I used to wonder some time ago why planets orbited primarily in one direction... this video actually shows it... fun stuff, you can learn a lot from playing with physics analogies.

However, there are lots of questions and comments in this thread that are very difficult to answer/respond to unless people know a bit about quantum and general relativity already. It is tough to visualize 3D spacetime warping, so 2D does a good visual job. 3D vector spaces are challenging to visualize... took me until the middle of grad school to be able to see them in my head. The weirdest thing that comes out of general relativity is that the mass-energy is the source of the field, and the field is the source of the mass-energy... no analog I can think of anywhere else in science. Also, when you mathematically traverse the event horizon of a black hole, the time and position coordinates exchange places in all physics equations. I have no flipping idea what this means.

The other coolest thing I have been reading about recently is Erik Verlinde's theory of entropic gravity, basically that gravity is not a fundamental force, but just an entropic force.

I can't make long posts any more, sorry.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Saludeen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you can't actually explain what you believe. I havn't formed a conclusion on the correct model because I don't conjecture or believe blindly like you, but it looks like heliocentric theory is nonsense. And if you'd rather just spam links then we can just do that and call it a day:
http://www.wildheretic.com/heliocent...-is-wrong-pt1/
https://aplanetruth.info/2015/04/11/...trism-is-dead/

Ah I was right then, you presented your question to me backwards as if I were the one to defend the geocentric model. But really you meant you believe the geocentric model and wanted me to defend the heliocentric model, as yes I do recognize the heliocentric model as the accurate model (to our solar system).

My links were solid links btw, not spam. The first one goes through the error's of the Quran regarding that authors incorrect assumptions by using his believed geocentric model.

The second link shows that they were his own assumptions and not rooted in any known biblical texts. The model actually comes from Greek philosophy, which only the Quran seems to teach, which was also a belief of the pagan moon god religion that islam is actually modeled upon.

The rest of the links are observational evidences that the heliocentric model is not only correct, but actually the model we've used for navigating our solar system and successfully.

Additionally, as I commented for melons, you too can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt by observing the night sky while using simulation software. That software I linked is open source, so if you think it is just part of your conspiracy theory, you can download the source, inspect it yourself, then compile and run it.

As for your links, you do realize that the stars take a very long time to ~move and is not noticeable over a short time, right? Actually Polaris wasn't always in the polar position (north star) relative to our observational view. This is because the path around our galaxy takes roughly 250 million years. However, Polaris was not always the observed North Star in our sky, but in our history that was once Alpha Draconis, about 3000 B.C. Between then and now, the North Star has moved from Draconis to Polaris (re-designated to), and 5000 years is a considerable small time in the vast distances of space.

But as I said, the correct model is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. The model is so relevant to us, and in that it is correct, space travel would be impossible w/o knowing that exact model. We could have never put a lander on mars without this knowledge, among the many other achievements regarding putting probes to where we want them to go.

Originally Posted by Chaboo_Cleric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Perhaps you too can find a infamous quote and base your entire naive perception on it , while backing juvenile claims that could be explained in a basic textbook. Followed by claiming your a rebel and against the grain.

I mean shit, who needs relativity when we got Newtons laws lol

Me too? I don't have issues with Einstein's theories. I even listed him over Newton on my first post here. I just know better than to get into a long debate with Sal over it, I mean unless I just wanted to as any have a right to do. I mean really, you can trim the tree all you like, but it's still going to be effected by the root of the problem.

Originally Posted by Toehammer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was going to post a response to Daywolf and Saludeen, addressing points one by one, but I just don't have time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTY1Kje0yLg

Nice vid (I've done this experiment myself at the science museum near UCLA), but there really is no issue of mine to be addressed here. Unless you just meant generally regarding Sal's and my exchange. I just dropped that Time article link and two gifs to see where it goes - back a number of pages. I'm still amazed no one addressed the problems with that second gif, it's actually not the heliocentric nor the geocentric models, but a third model which imo is deeply flawed. They call it the helical model. Within it, the orbits and speeds are insanely wrong, which is even not the most bazaar thing of it though isn't represented within that 2nd gif. It only really shows "don't believe everything you read on the internet" even though the model has gone viral and some people actually believe it. I think the 1/4th of Americans believing in the geocentric model may be accurate, or close to it.

ps and yeah, if someone is intent on rejecting the basic proven model of our solar system, good luck trying to reach them with anything Einstein has discovered [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Saludeen]

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Allahu Akbar

God is the Greatest

ﾟ

[Chaboo_Cleric]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ah I was right then, you presented your question to me backwards as if I were the one to defend the geocentric model. But really you meant you believe the geocentric model and wanted me to defend the heliocentric model, as yes I do recognize the heliocentric model as the accurate model (to our solar system).

My links were solid links btw, not spam. The first one goes through the error's of the Quran regarding that authors incorrect assumptions by using his believed geocentric model.

The second link shows that they were his own assumptions and not rooted in any known biblical texts. The model actually comes from Greek philosophy, which only the Quran seems to teach, which was also a belief of the pagan moon god religion that islam is actually modeled upon.

The rest of the links are observational evidences that the heliocentric model is not only correct, but actually the model we've used for navigating our solar system and successfully.

Additionally, as I commented for melons, you too can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt by observing the night sky while using simulation software. That software I linked is open source, so if you think it is just part of your conspiracy theory, you can download the source, inspect it yourself, then compile and run it.

As for your links, you do realize that the stars take a very long time to ~move and is not noticeable over a short time, right? Actually Polaris wasn't always in the polar position (north star) relative to our observational view. This is because the path around our galaxy takes roughly 250 million years. However, Polaris was not always the observed North Star in our sky, but in our history that was once Alpha Draconis, about 3000 B.C. Between then and now, the North Star has moved from Draconis to Polaris (re-designated to), and 5000 years is a considerable small time in the vast distances of space.

But as I said, the correct model is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. The model is so relevant to us, and in that it is correct, space travel would be impossible w/o knowing that exact model. We could have never put a lander on mars without this knowledge, among the many other achievements regarding putting probes to where we want them to go.


Me too? I don't have issues with Einstein's theories. I even listed him over Newton on my first post here. I just know better than to get into a long debate with Sal over it, I mean unless I just wanted to as any have a right to do. I mean really, you can trim the tree all you like, but it's still going to be effected by the root of the problem.


Nice vid (I've done this experiment myself at the science museum near UCLA), but there really is no issue of mine to be addressed here. Unless you just meant generally regarding Sal's and my exchange. I just dropped that Time article link and two gifs to see where it goes - back a number of pages. I'm still amazed no one addressed the problems with that second gif, it's actually not the heliocentric nor the geocentric models, but a third model which imo is deeply flawed. They call it the helical model. Within it, the orbits and speeds are insanely wrong, which is even not the most bazaar thing of it though isn't represented within that 2nd gif. It only really shows "don't believe everything you read on the internet" even though the model has gone viral and some people actually believe it. I think the 1/4th of Americans believing in the geocentric model may be accurate, or close to it.

ps and yeah, if someone is intent on rejecting the basic proven model of our solar system, good luck trying to reach them with anything Einstein has discovered [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It was a joke on the infamous quote, more so pointed toward Sal. Good post though , would read again.

[entruil]

isn't that the whole mystery?... "What is Dark Matter?"


Bang... Light chases dark away...

[Daywolf]

Oy vey, eh? hehehe

1 in 4 Americans Apparently Unaware the Earth Orbits the Sun

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[maskedmelon]

^ this gif must be what was causing all the lag tonight ^^

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

^ this gif must be what was causing all the lag tonight ^^

yeah srry 'bout that, it was a one off post, prolly larger than I realized. I don't usually pop off big gifs in regular threads, but like that mario akbar/isis gif I repost now and then which was large but I modified it down and re-uploaded it to be more posting friendly here. This will just be buried and forgotten, and the 1/4 of Americans can keep going on imagining the geocentric model ... and done in nothingness ^^

[Saludeen]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah srry 'bout that, it was a one off post, prolly larger than I realized. I don't usually pop off big gifs in regular threads, but like that mario akbar/isis gif I repost now and then which was large but I modified it down and re-uploaded it to be more posting friendly here. This will just be buried and forgotten, and the 1/4 of Americans can keep going on imagining the geocentric model ... and done in nothingness ^^

Can you demonstrate with simple logic and proof as to why the sun orbits the earth in your own words? Not implying that you can't, just asking. Because if you can't then that's called blind belief and nullifies any base for criticizing or mocking anyone who thinks otherwise.

That's also why articles like the one you linked should be scrutinized. There was a time when "scientific institutions" like ones we have today would have wrote an article just like that saying, "1 in 4 people don't know that the earth is flat."

And why would the sun be moving in a straight line in the second gif while all other bodies are orbiting? That's an irrational assumption. Did you believe it anyway?

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Saludeen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can you demonstrate with simple logic and proof as to why the sun orbits the earth in your own words? Not implying that you can't, just asking. Because if you can't then that's called blind belief and nullifies any base for criticizing or mocking anyone who thinks otherwise.

That's also why articles like the one you linked should be scrutinized. There was a time when "scientific institutions" like ones we have today would have wrote an article just like that saying, "1 in 4 people don't know that the earth is flat."

And why would the sun be moving in a straight line in the second gif while all other bodies are orbiting? That's an irrational assumption. Did you believe it anyway?

There is so much wrong with that second gif and all you can point out is you don't see a noticeable orbital declination over a tiny tiny period out of a ~250 million year circuit around the milky way galaxy?
M'kay

Why would I try to prove the geocentric model? It's completely false. Or did you mean to ask me to prove the heliocentric model? Geocentrism and the Qur'an: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Geocentrism_and_the_Quran
http://www.gotquestions.org/geocentrism-Bible.html
Observational proof of the heliocentric model
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ocentric_orbit
https://youtu.be/-j9JfMj1rkk