Upcoming change to class epics

[AzzarTheGod]

Why can't existing epics be grandfathered in? If you insist on a 46+ item restriction change even for the Blue server.

This 46+ item restriction change should at least grandfather in the existing Blue epics, as people have already invested a lot of time into the current system.

Everyone could live with that, then nobody will have wasted any gameplay hours into earning something that is no longer usable.

[woad]

@Haynar ,
not having one is not that big of a deal . its the taking away from those of us that do have them that I find wrong and what difference does having a ragebringer instead of a horn of hsagra at level 5 make ? not a whole lot so whats the big deal? the Problem is that People exploit the epic process for SELF GAINS and this I do not agree with .
let me also stress again that just having an epic at level 5 or 20 doesn't really matter I don't think its just that people will always seek out the BEST item available to twink with. that's how this works .... we play for pixels and community and we want the BEST of both .

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can anyone give me a reason, other than leveling faster, why not having an epic at low levels is game breaking? Help me understand this. Really.

I can see the red ganking noobs. But what else is there that makes having an epic at low levels important?

I appreciate the willingness to participate in the conversation :P

It's not gamebreaking to not have an epic at low levels. I'm not really bothered by the change itself because I've never had an epic on this server in my 5 years of playing here.

What does concern me is the reasoning. There were lots of ways to get epics at low levels back in classic. They just weren't commonly used (or used at all) because in the long history of EQ, classic was a VERY short period and the vast majority of people who played during that window had no idea what they were doing.

An example. AoW never(ultra rarely?) died legitimately during Velious. Pretty sure he died day 2 of Velious here. The mechanics used to kill AoW were available back in classic. But they weren't used perfectly like they have been here. The spirit of classic would dictate that some un-classic changes be made to the encounter to ensure that AoW either cannot die practically will not die until custom content comes out.

The server is either classic, or its not. If you're aiming for classic, I would argue that there needs to be some kind of compelling in-game reason to make a non-classic change, like level requirements on epics. Compelling reason like the nerf on Ivandyr's Hoop. That actually was game breaking and needed to be fixed even if it wasn't classic to do so.

So is not having an epic at level 1 game breaking? No. Of course not. But is having an epic at level 1 game breaking? Not any more than having any other very powerful droppable loot at level 1. Epics aren't even BIS twink gear anymore for some classes. The absence of a "game breaker" compelling reason here should indicate that a non-classic change is not really appropriate.

Is this a giant change? Probably not. Not likely to affect a ton of people. Just seems like its going to ruffle more feathers than its worth. Doesn't make the game more classic and really hurts some people.

All that being said. Yep, its your sandbox. I'm just happy to be here. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Edit: Added some examples. The following language was not in the original post. "Compelling reason like the nerf on Ivandyr's Hoop. That actually was game breaking and needed to be fixed even if it wasn't classic to do so." and "The absence of a "game breaker" compelling reason here should indicate that a non-classic change is not really appropriate."

[woad]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I appreciate the willingness to participate in the conversation :P

It's not gamebreaking to not have an epic at low levels. I'm not really bothered by the change itself because I've never had an epic on this server in my 5 years of playing here.

What does concern me is the reasoning. There were lots of ways to get epics at low levels back in classic. They just weren't commonly used (or used at all) because in the long history of EQ, classic was a VERY short period and the vast majority of people who played during that window had no idea what they were doing.

An example. AoW never(ultra rarely?) died legitimately during Velious. Pretty sure he died day 2 of Velious here. The mechanics used to kill AoW were available back in classic. But they weren't used perfectly like they have been here. The spirit of classic would dictate that some un-classic changes be made to the encounter to ensure that AoW either cannot die practically will not die until custom content comes out.

The server is either classic, or its not. If you're aiming for classic, I would argue that there needs to be some kind of compelling in-game reason to make a non-classic change, like level requirements on epics.

So is not having an epic at level 1 game breaking? No. Of course not. But is having an epic at level 1 game breaking? Not any more than having any other very powerful droppable loot at level 1. Epics aren't even BIS twink gear anymore for some classes.

Is this a giant change? Probably not. Not likely to affect a ton of people. Just seems like its going to ruffle more feathers than its worth. Doesn't make the game more classic and really hurts some people.

All that being said. Yep, its your sandbox. I'm just happy to be here. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

totally agree

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can anyone give me a reason, other than leveling faster, why not having an epic at low levels is game breaking? Help me understand this. Really.

I can see the red ganking noobs. But what else is there that makes having an epic at low levels important?

Personally, I think this game is way more fun when you use a Cracked Staff for 30 levels.

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally, I think this game is way more fun when you use a Cracked Staff for 30 levels.

My Druid used it for ~20 levels

[Droog007]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can anyone give me a reason, other than leveling faster, why not having an epic at low levels is game breaking? Help me understand this. Really.

I can see the red ganking noobs. But what else is there that makes having an epic at low levels important?

It's important for the same reason this server is important. It went something like this in 1999....

[Seltius]

Originally Posted by Haynar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can anyone give me a reason, other than leveling faster, why not having an epic at low levels is game breaking? Help me understand this. Really.

I can see the red ganking noobs. But what else is there that makes having an epic at low levels important?

Your making this a Dev vs Red thing. I spent a lot of time got a lot of help from friends and then spent a lot of plat getting my ranger his Swiftwind and Earthcaller along with a full set of Tolans just because it looked amazing. Several times I have had a GM run through and toss an illusion(High Elf or Troll to name 2 I remember off hand) on him in EC just to make him look cool as a race that cannot be ranger. It was all in fun I don't even play him that often anymore. He is level 30 and will probably stay that way. This was on blue99 btw. It was the chance to accomplish something so I guess with these changes I have no reason to ever log him in again. I didn't do it to grief anyone or to exploit or anything else it was something I never got on live until it was so trivial I was able to solo most of it.(ranger epics) It was for the fun and fashionquest.

This was what the game was about it wasn't a game changer or exploit it was because that was the fun of being able to customize your character and maybe do something different. We all play or played this game for our own reasons to have fun in our own way. Yes I agree some live to grief others or to exploit or to make money but most of us in our own ways play this game just to have fun. If we didn't need the social interaction or the customizable ability of our toons we could go play a console game. I am betting that is what attracted you guys to the idea of doing an emulated version of EQ if not you would have been doing WoW or some console game instead. It was the parts of the game you enjoyed that stuck with you.

I am not asking you not to implement this change. I am just asking that you not make it so some of us who did epics for innocent reasons to have fun without hurting others aren't hurt by the change. This isn't a classic change so it isn't necessary to take a sledge hammer to it to fix. I can understand making it not equippable until 46 if that is what you feel is best for the server and community but please do not unequip or make them automatically unequip when this change goes through. The griefers on Red or other places will die sooner or later and then they just cant reequip their epic until 46. Imo that's a win win for everyone.

There are so many other positive changes that can be made currently to help the server and community please you guys do good work keep it up.

Oh and it might be time to do a server restart. Not wipe but just restart them there are some pretty serious ghosting and latency issues starting to pop up. Seem to remember someone posting may have been years ago that if the server wasn't restarted at like day 44 or 74 or something it really started to act funny.


Last thing sorry if you addressed what I said earlier I only got to the page your comment was posted on before I felt I should quote it.

Thanks again for all you guys do for us.

[Thulghor]

Doing restrictions/patches based off of original developer intent now? When's that Soulfire nerf coming?

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Thulghor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doing restrictions/patches based off of original developer intent now? When's that Soulfire nerf coming?

This.

Though I tend to agree with the caps lock warriors. I agree NPCs had talking level restrictions, however they accepted items just fine. I know for a fact completed cleric, warrior, ranger, bard, and maybe wizard epics pre-50/46 on live. Obviously this was out of era, but classic/Kunark quests weren't too sophisticated in their requirements. Basically they should just check a faction level.

Class, race, level, flags/keys were eventually checks added to quests in EQ but not until later on. The first quests I can think of that ate your items if you were too low level were the PoGrowth ones in Velious, which required level 55.

In the grand scheme of things this change isn't a big deal. Just means I'll have to PL my alts a bit before I want to solo a bunch on them. But I think this is a subtle attempt to reduce Epic MQ sales to reduce the RMTers claiming they were selling epic MQs etc. Which is a good thing in my books. I just hope they don't remove MQing because that is classic as classic gets and helps players complete epics. I don't know if we would've completed half the SK or Mage epics we had if we couldn't have looted pieces and MQ'd them to deserving mains afterwards.