Dear Atheist,

[kylok]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm perfectly fine with saying 'i don't know - maybe you're right'.

You're a better man than I. I have a hard time saying that when someone's in my face telling me why their flying spaghetti monster is real.

[r00t]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Science hardly explains everything, but at least what it does explain is more or less indisputable (not talking about advanced physics, more like Newtonian).

Yes, Newton's Laws are fine, the theory of evolution cannot be claimed as fact

[kylok]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You talk as a tyrant because atheism has no morals

I prefer benevolent dictator, but tomato tomato.

Please stop referring to me as an atheist as I am not. I have a personal moral code that is not based on some over told stories, but instead by life experience.

[kylok]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, Newton's Laws are fine, the theory of evolution cannot be claimed as fact

It's not fact. It is the best, more accurate, and so far generally accepted model of how life has changed over time supported by the scientific method. You're arguing that I can't prove evolution, what I'm saying is open your eyes and look around - the world's the way it is for a reason. I just don't think that reason is because some dude with a beard in the sky made it that way, cause if he did he did a sloppy ass job and I would not employ his services again. For me to consider intelligent design in any sort of serious way I would need to see a substantial amount of perfection in the entirety of the universe that is simply not there. Something happened a very long time ago, between now and then more stuff happened that isn't well understood. What is well understood is that we're at the place we are now. As a much wiser person posted above me - this is a futile pursuit.

[August]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're a better man than I. I have a hard time saying that when someone's in my face telling me why their flying spaghetti monster is real.

All hail his noodly appendage!

I think my biggest hangup is that even if you do explain how we got here, with science, we're still forgetting a bigger picture. Yes, you can show that this leads to that and yadda yadda due to some laws or theories or whatever the fuck.

What about the backdrop to that. What about the framework? Isn't there something magical about commenting about the observable universe? Why is the gravitational constant what it is? Why does the gravitational field have an inverse relationship with distance? These are observable, provable things that we accept because they're constant. Did something not define that? And if you can prove that something, non-god-related, DID define that, then what defined that source?

We're beings that are extremely limited in our capabilities compared to the observable universe. Is it far-fetched to believe in other dimensions that are impacting ours? Things completely unobservable to us by any current means? We very well could be some ancient beings dreamworld. We could be stuck in a black hole within a black hole within a black hole with all our constants being defined by our level of immersion (we're in too deep) inside a recursive black hole loop.

The point is, we can't know, not yet anyways. So yeah, maybe god is a white dude with a beard who sent his son here. I don't think so, but maybe? Maybe he's a flying spaghetti monster - but then who cooked his noodles? Who put that pot on the stove and turned up the celestial burner? Arguing for a specific world-view is absolutely crazy because there's no way that any of you can prove that you're right. I understand everyone wants to feel like you have a place in this world but too fucking bad.

[JayN]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is your god bitches, now get back to work!

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My approach to science is the correct way because I question everything and don't accept a fossil record with like 4 fossils of monkeys saying I am a monkey

But you accept an omniscient god because any creator that isn't omniscient would just be a demi god. It's solid logic. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[JayN]

we all know we are a slave race created by aliens, duh facking morans

[mgellan]

Originally Posted by Boggwin Bramblefoot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have come to a conclusion that nothing in the design of the human body is by chance or mistake. It is a perfect computer/machine, with built in fail-safes, etc. I can never believe that over time we "evolved" from anything.

Google "laryngeal nerve of the giraffe" (which is obviously the most obvious evidence of the sheer stupidity of intelligent design - also present in "perfect" humans) and explain to me how routing a nerve from the head around the heart back into the head is "intelligent". Why are humans built such that we can't breathe and swallow at the same time? Choking used to be the largest source of accidental death in children, are you saying god designed people so millions of kids died on purpose?

People who are proponents of intelligent design are also completely unable to articulate what the mechanism for this phenomena is. For a complete treatment on why ID is stupid read "The Devil In Dover" and educate yourself.

Regards,
Mg

[kylok]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All hail his noodly appendage!

I think my biggest hangup is that even if you do explain how we got here, with science, we're still forgetting a bigger picture. Yes, you can show that this leads to that and yadda yadda due to some laws or theories or whatever the fuck.

What about the backdrop to that. What about the framework? Isn't there something magical about commenting about the observable universe? Why is the gravitational constant what it is? Why does the gravitational field have an inverse relationship with distance? These are observable, provable things that we accept because they're constant. Did something not define that? And if you can prove that something, non-god-related, DID define that, then what defined that source?

We're beings that are extremely limited in our capabilities compared to the observable universe. Is it far-fetched to believe in other dimensions that are impacting ours? Things completely unobservable to us by any current means? We very well could be some ancient beings dreamworld. We could be stuck in a black hole within a black hole within a black hole with all our constants being defined by our level of immersion (we're in too deep) inside a recursive black hole loop.

The point is, we can't know, not yet anyways. So yeah, maybe god is a white dude with a beard who sent his son here. I don't think so, but maybe? Maybe he's a flying spaghetti monster - but then who cooked his noodles? Who put that pot on the stove and turned up the celestial burner? Arguing for a specific world-view is absolutely crazy because there's no way that any of you can prove that you're right. I understand everyone wants to feel like you have a place in this world but too fucking bad.

That's it, August wins ForumQuest.

Personally I think that constants are the way they are because... that's the way they are. What makes blue blue? As far as I can tell the only thing that defines colors is the fact that we can all agree on them (it can be argued that color is defined by frequency but that shafts the shit out of color blind people). I also don't busy myself with how and why we're here, I just accept that we are. I concern myself more with stupid shit like why salt dissolves in water and how nitriles are converted into acids, or why certain drugs have certain indications and effects while others do not. This last part I have a bit of a hard time with because human beings are so diverse on an individual basis which irks the scientists in me that wants things to be black and white.