Critical Suggestions for Raid Rules

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol, you realize this is a rotation right? The only difference is that you all leave your characters online for days on end.

This stuff can't go on forever, folks will burn out and move on, rinse & repeat. I have an idea, let me chat with Nilbog. I think I can satiate both sides here.

Actually it would not be a rotation if the guilds that are currently perma camping are confronted with a 5th guild+.

I know that people will scream it is not classic however if the devs of the original EQ had a way to alleviate this problem they would have. Their goal was customer retention and to make money not run players off. Right now we are allowing ourselves to be dominated by some thought that the original EQ was designed this way on PURPOSE and not because there was a BETTER WAY.

I anxious look forward to what ever idea you have in this matter Aeolwind.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

lol, you realize this is a rotation right? The only difference is that you all leave your characters online for days on end.

This stuff can't go on forever, folks will burn out and move on, rinse & repeat. I have an idea, let me chat with Nilbog. I think I can satiate both sides here.

Thank you.

[odizzido]

Originally Posted by Loke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you actually want to make it more tedious and difficult to camp mobs? Then when people do that you're just going to complain more.

I think you missed the point of the post, and I have no interest in explaining it to you if you don't understand. You can try re-reading it I guess.

I imagine everyone else who isn't here just to be loud understands though.

[G13]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

@ G13, im not part of the raiding scene yet and clearly am not claiming to be, but just wondering - are you comfortable/okay with the current system (poopsocking/camping/whatever you want to call it)? Or are you just accepting it more than these other folks with ideas to change it?

It's not a question of being "comfortable" with the raiding scene.

People don't seem to understand that this is non instanced content. 5 mobs on a variance timer. The majority of these 5 mobs have a 1 week spawn cycle. We're talking bread crumbs for a lot of hungry people/guilds.

There is no possible way you are ever going to stop camping. FFA? Camp
FTE? Camp. Any guild with decent leadership will use the tactics necessary to make sure their raid force is in the best possible position to get the mob when it spawns. That means being ready, in the zone, when the boss pops. No guild owes any of you whining motherf*ckers a damn thing. The role of the officers of IB, DA, Wi is to kill bosses and gear up their guilds. Not to give in to the demands of a bunch of board warriors.

You still have to clear trash. You still have to pull the lair. You still have to mobilize at a moment's notice when the boss pops if someone is calling timers and roll calls and you have to execute within 30 minutes or all that time spent waiting for the mob is wasted. The GMs have already said they are NOT getting involved with the raid rules or the raid scene and for good reason. You are not going to please everyone and the reason being is because not everyone plays this game for the same reasons.

The guilds bitching and complaining they aren't getting mobs and calling the other guilds "poopsockers" play this game to "Heya" in /gu and for a bit of nostalgia. They aren't hardcore. They don't play the guild vs guild game. I can only speculate as to why they don't, but it just seems like they have poor leadership or are unmotivated to try and gear up their members.

They've outright said. " We won't camp ", which is fine, but they've never done anything to try and get a crack at a mob without camping which is VERY possible to do. I find it ironic that people in Divinity of all guilds are shitting up these threads talking shit about "poopsocking" and "camping" when that's EXACTLY what they did to get their first Vox kill many months ago. They chose, as a guild, to do it one time. (That was long before DA even existed, so you bitches need to go rake up your own backyard before you start slinging insults.) For them now to troll up threads judging other guilds doing EXACTLY what they did is beyond hypocrisy.

Personally, I don't speak for a specific guild. What I do is recognize what is truly going on here which is guild VS guild competition. Classic raiding is horribly outdated with the precision and communication being used for raiding such a small amount of content today. The inevitable conclusion to this type of organization is camping. Prioritizing. Choosing targets WAY in advance. The current raid rules actually make this possible without being a total shitfest of trains and KSing. Both DA and IB, for the most part, have generally played by the rules. Not all the time, but enough to where the current system has integrity. The raiding guilds have been playing this game within this structure for a long time now. I'm sure people that were clearing hate trash 6 months ago that didn't want to compete in this environment envisioned these guilds burning out and dying but that hasn't happened. So what you are seeing now is the frustration that has built up for months as these second tiered guilds have continued to kill their shiverbacks and Ire ghasts for the 1000th time and have nothing to show for it.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They've outright said. " We won't camp ", which is fine, but they've never done anything to try and get a crack at a mob without camping which is VERY possible to do. I find it ironic that people in Divinity of all guilds are shitting up these threads talking shit about "poopsocking" and "camping" when that's EXACTLY what they did to get their first Vox kill many months ago.

First of all, stop posting on an alt account. You want to talk, let everyone know who you are.

Secondly, Divinity didn't keep 15 people online AFK during that incident.

Daydrem and a few others rotated in and out throughout a Sunday night while we chatted with IB trackers. When Vox popped, we mobilized and had 15 in just barely before IB did.

Secondly, as Hogwash said...you don't have a clue as to what effort people are making to attempt to bring pressure on the camping. That's evident.

Last of all, as Aeolwind summarized beautifully, poopsocking itself is a forced rotation. All you have to do is keep a toon online constantly.

[G13]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First of all, stop posting on an alt account. You want to talk, let everyone know who you are.

Secondly, Divinity didn't keep 15 people online AFK during that incident.

Then you got lucky that another guild didn't roll in with a force of 15 and take claim from you. Doesn't change the fact you camped Vox for 3 days. And yes, you had a force of more than 15 on and off there for 3 days. You also camped out a large number of people in the zone. Stop trying to deny your guild didn't set the precedent. They absolutely did.

Daydrem and a few others rotated in and out throughout a Sunday night while we chatted with IB trackers. When Vox popped, we mobilized and had 15 in just barely before IB did.

Right. So you understand that you have to mobilize for raid targets. Guilds are just doing it now far in advance. You obviously would have been better prepared if you had mobilized sooner, instead of waiting for Vox to pop. And what you saying actually isn't completely true. You had a force there for days and it was more than just a few people. There was a specific thread about it where IB was complaining it was going to lead to the situation we see ourselves in now. Go back and read Wrei's posts. He was quite clear.

Secondly, as Hogwash said...you don't have a clue as to what effort people are making to attempt to bring pressure on the camping. That's evident.

I know more than you do apparently. Tell me, when does Remedy, Trans and Divinity ever pressure anyone. When do they call timers. When do they role call? Answer - Never

Last of all, as Aeolwind summarized beautifully, poopsocking itself is a forced rotation. All you have to do is keep a toon online constantly.

Congats on knowing what IB and DA stated months ago. Everyone knows the cblocks and which mobs give you opportunity for what next mob and so forth. The competing guilds have all the timers and everything locked up to a T.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then you got lucky that another guild didn't roll in with a force of 15 and take claim from you. Doesn't change the fact you camped Vox for 3 days. And yes, you had a force of more than 15 on and off there for 3 days. You also camped out a large number of people in the zone. Stop trying to deny your guild didn't set the precedent. They absolutely did.

Total and complete falsehood. I was there. We did not have a force of 15 there for 3 days. We stayed throughout a single day, and it wasn't with 15 people. Don't know where you're getting your info, but it's clear you weren't there. Nothing Divinity did was planned in advance, it was spur-of-the-moment.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right. So you understand that you have to mobilize for raid targets. Guilds are just doing it now far in advance. You obviously would have been better prepared if you had mobilized sooner, instead of waiting for Vox to pop. And what you saying actually isn't completely true. You had a force there for days and it was more than just a few people. There was a specific thread about it where IB was complaining it was going to lead to the situation we see ourselves in now. Go back and read Wrei's posts. He was quite clear.

I don't have to rely on posts, bro. I sat up and chatted with Daydrem most of that night when we were the only two Div members in zone. Thanks, tho.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know more than you do apparently. Tell me, when does Remedy and Divinity ever pressure anyone. When do they call timers. When do they role call? Answer - Never

I'll grant you we haven't brought a lot of pressure to bear yet. But we will.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Congats on knowing what IB and DA stated months ago. Everyone knows the cblocks and which mobs give you opportunity for what next mob and so forth. The competing guilds have all the timers and everything locked up to a T.

Our rep to the guild summit - Trimm - stated that himself, which I quoted in an earlier post. So yeah ,we knew it could be done. We thought people would have the integrity to actually compete. We were wrong.

Doesn't change the fact that a rotation is already in place. The only requirement is the willingness to keep an avatar online constantly. No competition, no effort involved.

[Overcast]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does anyone think Kunark will alleviate current end-game problems? Honest question, as i'm not embroiled in all this drama...

It will move on to the Kunark bosses. Chances are that the desire to camp the old world bosses will lessen dramatically.

[Buhbuh]

For all the people complaining - you want to PvE but the most fundamental entreaty to contend for it is to PvP.

Another thing is that PoSky will take forever to get through so other guilds can be taking the poopsock rotations while people are in Sky for hours on end.

Still though, an end to this discussion is literally PvP, guild wars or just plain hard coded. That's the simple way, but I'm sure dev's will think of something.

[Uaellaen]

I know more than you do apparently. Tell me, when does Remedy and Divinity ever pressure anyone. When do they call timers. When do they role call? Answer - Never

we dont .. why should we? its a game and not a stress factor you tool

oh and also .. stop posting on an anon account you troll ... too scared to reveal who you are?