If red were to ever be restarted, would you support PvP teams?

[Tycko]

This is why we can't have nice things. Everything turns into a shit throwing contest.

[Nirgon]

#1 - most people left because of no guard assist, opening lag, rage over the surprise mega xp bonus and earth pets . At launch on live, mage pets didn't cast a Oh root but a small (and I believe highish threat) aoe magic spell. Also note, you could resist it pretty well and not get hit with it 100% of the time with 150+ mr lol.

#2 - Here's what I did when I saw 6 people from another guild in zone that I knew were just going to come right for me: leave. Here's what other people did, sat there medding not paying any attention at all to their screen (this isn't a blue server who'da thunk it).

#3 - XP loss on death.. what a bad idea. At least you can bag up if you're attacked in an item loot system. The 4-5 corpse runs a day was enough for some people that QQ'd up my tells, 15-20% xp loss on top of it is more of a griefing mechanism than anyone could have ever hoped for. I mean really, people being taken from lvl 50 to 41 because they fell asleep at the computer. Lawl.

Much like all the other low pop, completely fucked up PVE servers on the EQ Emu list, a fucked up PvP server will also have a low pop.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Cool things about item loot:
-players do quests for no drop items.
-twinks are gangbanged for their shiny pixels. instead of running from them. there's a reason to pvp other than zone control or simple griefing.
-separates pve looters from pvp looters

Bad things about item loot:
-losing primary, secondary, or ranged. detrimental to play a melee without a weapon (i would not support an implementation of item loot without those slots being protected. honestly i might go as far as to say for custom item loot, a melee spawns soulbound with the weapons they had equipped when they died)
-can't implement after server is established

I think every iteration of a pvp server should attempt item loot at launch. If it doesn't work, fine. If it does, great.

Also, casters shouldn't be able to meditate without seeing only their spell book prior to level 35. In before someone says casters are better than melee.

Completely agree with all this except for the "can't" implement part on item loot.

The "can't" comes from the current resist system in my book. As much as I want item loot, I'd say absoutely not until a few spell lines are dramatically changed. All research on this is done and submitted too. You just won't be able to really effectively group vs group pvp in just planar no drop like you did on live with the problems that exist.

RZ had higher pop than quite a few blue servers too btw and certainly more than VZ or I think even TZ.

Teams is a fun twist... but, that would be the "can't after launch" to me.

Before anyone blue to the gills jumps in, some of the best times for you guys and the most exciting parts of the server are the best of the best fights... which obviously involve, pvp.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd hardly have anything to worry about considering most of my gear is no-drop sky/vp

No! But you and Heartbrand and the rest of the pixel mongers won't be able to run around everywhere with your diamond resist gear, BCGs etc. You all aren't FULL no drop from VP and sky yet either.

You guys say it'd only benefit you, but I've seen you also champion things that only benefit you and it looks a lot like ... well this.

Where's Heartbrand coming after double wurmslayers?

The most important thing to you guys was fixing dragon resists which only YOU really are doing. You also want tstaffs nerfed because they're "easier" to acquire than raid loot and very powerful (see 8000 BTUs Smedy gif). Classic but... it does not benefit you so you want it removed.

Anytime I read a comment from your crew about "server population" or "would only benefit us" about this, I immediately dismiss the notion. In fact, you guys will absolutely be the first to complain if something like this is ever implemented. Where's Ezpk ranting about how terrible this would be? Or Bigslip?

You know what's bad? A guild of 40 people in full resist gear going around xp lossing (3% = 20-45minutes, if they can even solo it back at all) people in barely planar. It evens the playing field way more than you think.

You're also the last person I should have to say this to, probably, but CLASSIC RED = 4 lvl range, item loot minus primary/secondary/ranged + full coin. This is a far cry right now and not a great system unless you're in a well established group with very high play time that can afford to take xp losses for pvp. It completely discourages it and this is what you guys want.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a milk saucer to fill for this cat that got out of the bag, he's worked up quite a sweat.

[Proverbs28]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Completely agree with all this except for the "can't" implement part on item loot.

The "can't" comes from the current resist system in my book. As much as I want item loot, I'd say absoutely not until a few spell lines are dramatically changed. All research on this is done and submitted too. You just won't be able to really effectively group vs group pvp in just planar no drop like you did on live with the problems that exist.

RZ had higher pop than quite a few blue servers too btw and certainly more than VZ or I think even TZ.

Teams is a fun twist... but, that would be the "can't after launch" to me.

Before anyone blue to the gills jumps in, some of the best times for you guys and the most exciting parts of the server are the best of the best fights... which obviously involve, pvp.

If nirgon could ignore the urge to play, hed be a good GM, dudes knowledge almost as vast as the whole in my heart caused by playing eq and still being virgin.

[Rettii]

its nice to see nilbog post, it really gives a warm and fuzzy feeling to know his opinions are somewhat in our favor

just wish we had obama to bring us change

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Proverbs28 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If nirgon could ignore the urge to play, hed be a good GM, dudes knowledge almost as vast as the whole in my heart caused by playing eq and still being virgin.

More like good active dev. I can't be a better GM than Sirken, so I'm not going to try to be. I know I don't have the temperment for it and certain people just aren't allowed to be banned or suspended for their actions.... which would be my very first order of business.

Oh and I can resist the urge to play and be a dev, unlike some people.

Funny how resist problems go ignored so long but not too long into VP being progressed, we get fixes to raid mob AoE's that are a direct result of Null's changes (I'm a software dev, I realize unexpected things like this crop up and this is one thing I'd say fits the bill). PvE fixes DIRECTLY related to the red server. Where's the special PvP attention? That benefits everyone, not just the one guild with a dev in it in VP.

[Dullah]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No! But you and Heartbrand and the rest of the pixel mongers won't be able to run around everywhere with your diamond resist gear, BCGs etc. You all aren't FULL no drop from VP and sky yet either.

You guys say it'd only benefit you, but I've seen you also champion things that only benefit you and it looks a lot like ... well this.

Where's Heartbrand coming after double wurmslayers?

The most important thing to you guys was fixing dragon resists which only YOU really are doing. You also want tstaffs nerfed because they're "easier" to acquire than raid loot and very powerful (see 8000 BTUs Smedy gif). Classic but... it does not benefit you so you want it removed.

Anytime I read a comment from your crew about "server population" or "would only benefit us" about this, I immediately dismiss the notion. In fact, you guys will absolutely be the first to complain if something like this is ever implemented. Where's Ezpk ranting about how terrible this would be? Or Bigslip?

You know what's bad? A guild of 40 people in full resist gear going around xp lossing (3% = 20-45minutes, if they can even solo it back at all) people in barely planar. It evens the playing field way more than you think.

You're also the last person I should have to say this to, probably, but CLASSIC RED = 4 lvl range, item loot minus primary/secondary/ranged + full coin. This is a far cry right now and not a great system unless you're in a well established group with very high play time that can afford to take xp losses for pvp. It completely discourages it and this is what you guys want.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a milk saucer to fill for this cat that got out of the bag, he's worked up quite a sweat.

The whole only benefit you thing is really out the window. I play 3 very diverse classes, so any suggestion I post affects me negatively on one character or more. Futhermore, the t-staff thing obviously favors me seeing as how the guild I'm in has 5 of the 6 active t-staffs on the server (yes active staffs, not active monks, because the t-staff is more important than the player wielding it).

As far as pvp gear, yes I don't have full vp/sky, but I could fill every slot with decent nodrop items from what I'm capable of getting. I have full fear/hate gear, almost all sky quests done on my main and quite a few VP drops (probably quite a few more if 2 of the dragons weren't almost completely broken requiring a zerg force to take down). So... I'm not against it because of this, I can adapt. Its just a bad argument, I played RZ and I played here and I prefer this system as far as loot is concerned mainly because it caters to a larger pop, theres just no arguing it. Been tried and tested. Not really a big fan of exp loss, but its whatever to me...

[Dark Team]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

#1 - most people left because of no guard assist, opening lag, rage over the surprise mega xp bonus and earth pets . At launch on live, mage pets didn't cast a Oh root but a small (and I believe highish threat) aoe magic spell. Also note, you could resist it pretty well and not get hit with it 100% of the time with 150+ mr lol.

#2 - Here's what I did when I saw 6 people from another guild in zone that I knew were just going to come right for me: leave. Here's what other people did, sat there medding not paying any attention at all to their screen (this isn't a blue server who'da thunk it).

#3 - XP loss on death.. what a bad idea. At least you can bag up if you're attacked in an item loot system. The 4-5 corpse runs a day was enough for some people that QQ'd up my tells, 15-20% xp loss on top of it is more of a griefing mechanism than anyone could have ever hoped for. I mean really, people being taken from lvl 50 to 41 because they fell asleep at the computer. Lawl.

Much like all the other low pop, completely fucked up PVE servers on the EQ Emu list, a fucked up PvP server will also have a low pop.

This is just an outsider's opinion, but most of the bluebies I knew at the time quit because of griefing and more importantly a lack of valid playstyles on the server. It was either hardcore grindgrindgrind to max or end up with no one to play with other than twinks out to PK you. The attitude that EQ starts at 50+ is a silly one, and imo the fact that so many people were calling for xp bonuses and removing xp death in pvp instead of just playing and enjoying the game helped to kill red. EQ is like a chatroom with stuff to do, and when it became more about getting on top and winning than hanging out and having fun, much of the playerbase that I knew felt alienated and quit.

[Nirgon]

I do paint my picture of what needs to be fixed with a very broad stroke.

There's PvE fixes that should exist like Hoshkar and CT not quadding when they have 2 weapons on their loot table. And, for the "must make it perfect fanatic", dragons and other non humanoids shouldn't show slash/crush/pierce based on what they have either.

It's just very unsettling to see that of all the nuances and little things that someone needed to keep up with regarding Null's resist implementation that a PvE fix was way at the top of the list... one that really only benefits one group than the good of the server.

Red99 was a very rough playground, and many people went into it with a kill kill kill mentality. If you were a solo player, it was hard. If you were a solo player and rolled a melee, you were just naive. But EQ PvP (and how all PvP really is) is about getting your come-uppins as a new player. Some people had very thin skin and thought there was some kind of code of chivalry to be followed.

I've played on blue (more than you realize) and there's a very thin skinned mentality when it comes to disputes. Everything is an outrage if you so happen to miff someone. Well, if you're one of those people, you were just headed for a nervous break down here.

And the lack of play style! Twinks murdering! Exactly! This is what item loot cures. You can log in and try your hand at pvping for items without being in a raid guild. It's something you look forward to logging in and doing. And, of course, the bigger the game you chase, the bigger the score.