Where did EQ Live go wrong?

[Littlestgnome]

Luclin, and honestly I don't think it was all to do with the features so much as it just felt like a half-finished and half-assed expansion.

[SamwiseRed]

i would say luclin EXCEPT beastlord was coolest class ever made. sony had thier dirt paws wrapped around EQ from day one so in essense it was fucked from the start

[DarkwingDuck]

GoD, but it all went down hill lunclin/pop.. the old world died.. and the twinks went rampent on luclin

[Morsakin]

Honestly I think it came down to the apparent fact that they realized the success of the game in the Velious-era, and attempted to expand and "improve" the game with an unnecessary and poorly implemented graphics overhaul, combined with derp-level extravagance (see: cats on moon with snake men and VT, which had next to no interwoven-lore before hand, almost as if they wanted to keep it some surprising yet secretive zone), all the while throwing content out that stressed time sink after time sink. (VT key, and once you finally get in....clearing VT trash for hours)

There was also a noticeable transition in the way raid encounters were mechanized, in that they became more focused on error correction or outright prevention to the point that you simply needed to find a strat to negate a particular trait of the encounter you were raiding, and the rest was cake. I believe Thott phrased it correctly when he stated that prior to Luclin, the aggregate hp levels of a raid would fluctuate based on AE's, adds, etc. to a much higher degree than they did once Luclin gear, spells, and the aforementioned boss mechanics were introduced.

Mobs began having ridiculous amounts of HP, yes, but the raid as a whole was exposed to less individual danger, lessening the likelihood of someone dying because they didn't have their resists at or near cap, or because the individual was an inbred degenerate who couldnt stay out of AEs and such. The only thing that increased was (typically) damage to the MT and a few individuals dealing with adds, with a possible quirky effect thrown in (Aggro reduction spells on Emp, for example, forcing you to pick up aggro on the fly). Other than that, I think most of you can agree that killer AE's (like VP AE's relative to kunark gear) had gone the way of the dodo at this point, with lower thresholds being created to prevent the thin line you'd otherwise walk when it came to simply being able to effectively engage raid targets. (Oh nos guys, an AE G. Flux in end-game Luclin that doesn't even possess a dispel or noticeable damage component.....how will we survive against this overgrown CoM goo?)

In short, end-game raids became dull and uninviting, with little room for ingenuity or creative adaptation. The only fun part was dealing with encounters that had previously been untouched or at the very least weren't well documented, as is the case for everything in the MMO communities these days. If I hadn't been raiding in such a setting with TR, I would've lost interest long before I did.


I will admit that there were some "fun" encounters post Velious, but nothing in Luclin stands out in my mind as particularly challenging or difficult, aside from gear, retardation, and patience (pre-nerf Seru~~ FU 2.5 hour CH rotations) checks.

[RiffDaemon]

For me, EQLive going wrong is a three-phase deal.

1) PoK books. Those insta-ports completely killed the size of the game and ruined taxi classes.

2) Tiered spells. The Rk. I, II, and III stuff just grates my nerves. If you want the raiders to have higher damage spells than the rest of the rabble, then just do like you did with Ancient spells and such back in OoW.

3) Remodeling old zones. So yeah, you want to progress the game and have the new content be at least comparable to other MMOs; but for the love of the Rathe, leave the old zones alone. If you want to instate some alien demon race that lives in crazy towers in the air, then go for it; if you want their realm to be accessible from Freeport, then go for it; but don't obliterate Freeport for the sake of remodeling it to make it "easier on the eyes" to new players. I doubt PoR brought any new players anyway.


But still I play on ....... *sigh*

[Galelor]

Originally Posted by RiffDaemon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For me, EQLive going wrong is a three-phase deal.

1) PoK books. Those insta-ports completely killed the size of the game and ruined taxi classes.

2) Tiered spells. The Rk. I, II, and III stuff just grates my nerves. If you want the raiders to have higher damage spells than the rest of the rabble, then just do like you did with Ancient spells and such back in OoW.

3) Remodeling old zones. So yeah, you want to progress the game and have the new content be at least comparable to other MMOs; but for the love of the Rathe, leave the old zones alone. If you want to instate some alien demon race that lives in crazy towers in the air, then go for it; if you want their realm to be accessible from Freeport, then go for it; but don't obliterate Freeport for the sake of remodeling it to make it "easier on the eyes" to new players. I doubt PoR brought any new players anyway.


But still I play on ....... *sigh*

Not meant to derail, but point 1 is taken way out of context of the expansion. While the PoK books ruined the 'port for cash', it by no means ruined Druids and Wizards. These classes did very well in those expansions (specifically druids.) Additionally, evac/succor became useful imo.

[RiffDaemon]

Originally Posted by Galelor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not meant to derail, but point 1 is taken way out of context of the expansion. While the PoK books ruined the 'port for cash', it by no means ruined Druids and Wizards. These classes did very well in those expansions (specifically druids.) Additionally, evac/succor became useful imo.

Yeah, I didn't mean to say those classes became useless. I meant to say they ruined the taxi part of the taxi classes.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by RiffDaemon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I didn't mean to say those classes became useless. I meant to say they ruined the taxi part of the taxi classes.

A dev at a fanfaire defended the PoK books by saying the day PoP came out you finally saw druids and wizards drop from being perpetually anonomous.

[Craigmandu]

and I think most people on live right now would laugh at that for being slow.

You are probably right...that was with me also looking around, figuring out where I was, since I had never been to mines of gloomingdeep before etc.... And I had no others around to give me any damage shields etc... so yea it probably was relatively "slow"...

But to compare...I started this Necro on 1999 the other day and I'm just now level 6. That is what I missed most about EQ, compared to WoW etc... The investment in your character MEANT something to you. Losing xp, the danger factor...and the fact that regular snakes if they are even/yellow can and sometimes will kick your ass if you don't pay attention.

I like the leveling to be challenging, dangerous, and have penalties for failure...when they started dumbing down the game, putting in graveyards, making it too easy for death not to matter and travel no longer to be dangerous at all, it loses its risk factor.

Velious for me was the expansion the game should have stopped with (even though I know they could never have stopped, it was too much of a money machine).

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Craigmandu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Velious for me was the expansion the game should have stopped with (even though I know they could never have stopped, it was too much of a money machine).

They could have kept expanding but kept it in theme I think, but kept getting crazier and crazier ideas. Pretty soon EQ wasn't EQ anymore.