Xzerion says TR isn't shown favoritism?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Heck g13 if you follow the line as far as punishments, wasn't IB or such there when DA got their raid suspension or no raiding for a week? And then after knowing it is against the rules and a violation and all that for the next period of months they continue to do the same exact things in order to maintain an advantage over other guilds.

It wasn't a 'poor decision' it was a willful act knowing full well what they were doing. The only rational thing to do is remove everything they received. Otherwise just wait for a new compile and they will be at it again and after a week will be 60 again, showing no effects.

[Swishahouse]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Heck g13 if you follow the line as far as punishments, wasn't IB or such there when DA got their raid suspension or no raiding for a week? And then after knowing it is against the rules and a violation and all that for the next period of months they continue to do the same exact things in order to maintain an advantage over other guilds.

It wasn't a 'poor decision' it was a willful act knowing full well what they were doing. The only rational thing to do is remove everything they received. Otherwise just wait for a new compile and they will be at it again and after a week will be 60 again, showing no effects.

Thanks for Shaere

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

And here is another thought. if you strip a raid guild of all their gear does that help or hinder? Meaning now there is perhaps even more (and now legitimate) reason for them to raid everything as they will need it but then again it could work as now they lost everything they gained from it and now fall behind in the race. Would you want to be in that guild then? Perhaps roll them back pre-kunark? And how do you punish everyone unless you think they all knew and benefited? Do you make a distinction between the lvl 17 druid in patchwork who used auto forage after starting here 2 months ago and the raiders who abused for the sake of getting raid targets and gaining an unfair advantage in which the end result was the majority of the server's population was affected adversely(I think you have to)? Look at what they caused in the raid scene, forum drama, and just all around hate and discontent. And what if you chalk the fact they were able to do those things possibly due to cheating? Did the raid scene mess contribute to development being slowed and did that affect the entire server population negatively or harm the project as such?

If I asked you is it more likely that people sat at their computer for 5 days refreshing track windows every 5 seconds non stop or more likely there was some kind of alert for them when named pop what would you say? They claim to mobilize faster then anyone but how do they know the instant it spawns? Is it possible for multiple people to take shifts on trackers and check periodically? Sure it is. Is it also possible for those people to have a plugin notify them of a mob spawn? And btw, have it linked to a text message system? It sure is. I wish I knew the truth because I don't see anyone refreshing track every few seconds for days on end. I find it more likely something set off an audio trigger or an alert. I only mention this because this is an example of using said cheat to gain the advantage and ensure the rest of the server gets shit. That could be griefing, or at the very least impacting our enjoyment negatively. What if they could view a map and see where the mob was positioned and know where to move the raid? What if they could see how all the mobs were pathing and know the exact open route at any instant ie when exactly to pull and from where precisely. What if you knew precisely when a mob was spawning so with 2 guilds camping it you knew exactly when to move in and gain position? Just examples of possibilities I believe have occurred here. And if it was being used to such an advantage then should they retain the loot? Should everyone lose? Should it be disseminated to others outside the guild in some form? Would it unbalance the economy and hurt the server integrity? Maybe just remove the loot they have attained post kunark then? Lot of decisions and shades to consider here with serious implications. Make them all level 1 again with no loot. Reset the toon to level 1. That should slow down raiding, no?

Maybe just do it like the NCAA does it. Probation 6 months, no raids allowed. Or 4 to be less extreme. Next month 1 raid target, next month 2, etc. Or no raids for 6 months. Heck if they go to 50 they will be 60 in a week. Maybe roll them back to level 1, salt the earth as it were. I tried to think of examples over history and salting the earth was something extreme used. Also look at Germany post World war 2 and what happened there. SMU in college football comes closer perhaps if you look at that story. No bowl games no tv games no recruiting blah blah blah and give them the death sentence because their actions specifically compromised the integrity of college football.

[Azzbad]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And here is another thought. if you strip a raid guild of all their gear does that help or hinder? Meaning now there is perhaps even more (and now legitimate) reason for them to raid everything as they will need it but then again it could work as now they lost everything they gained from it and now fall behind in the race. Would you want to be in that guild then? Perhaps roll them back pre-kunark? And how do you punish everyone unless you think they all knew and benefited? Do you make a distinction between the lvl 17 druid in patchwork who used auto forage after starting here 2 months ago and the raiders who abused for the sake of getting raid targets and gaining an unfair advantage in which the end result was the majority of the server's population was affected adversely(I think you have to)? Look at what they caused in the raid scene, forum drama, and just all around hate and discontent. And what if you chalk the fact they were able to do those things possibly due to cheating? Did the raid scene mess contribute to development being slowed and did that affect the entire server population negatively or harm the project as such?

If I asked you is it more likely that people sat at their computer for 5 days refreshing track windows every 5 seconds non stop or more likely there was some kind of alert for them when named pop what would you say? They claim to mobilize faster then anyone but how do they know the instant it spawns? Is it possible for multiple people to take shifts on trackers and check periodically? Sure it is. Is it also possible for those people to have a plugin notify them of a mob spawn? And btw, have it linked to a text message system? It sure is. I wish I knew the truth because I don't see anyone refreshing track every few seconds for days on end. I find it more likely something set off an audio trigger or an alert. I only mention this because this is an example of using said cheat to gain the advantage and ensure the rest of the server gets shit. That could be griefing, or at the very least impacting our enjoyment negatively. What if they could view a map and see where the mob was positioned and know where to move the raid? What if they could see how all the mobs were pathing and know the exact open route at any instant ie when exactly to pull and from where precisely. What if you knew precisely when a mob was spawning so with 2 guilds camping it you knew exactly when to move in and gain position? Just examples of possibilities I believe have occurred here. And if it was being used to such an advantage then should they retain the loot? Should everyone lose? Should it be disseminated to others outside the guild in some form? Would it unbalance the economy and hurt the server integrity? Maybe just remove the loot they have attained post kunark then? Lot of decisions and shades to consider here with serious implications. Make them all level 1 again with no loot. Reset the toon to level 1. That should slow down raiding, no?

Maybe just do it like the NCAA does it. Probation 6 months, no raids allowed. Or 4 to be less extreme. Next month 1 raid target, next month 2, etc. Or no raids for 6 months. Heck if they go to 50 they will be 60 in a week. Maybe roll them back to level 1, salt the earth as it were. I tried to think of examples over history and salting the earth was something extreme used. Also look at Germany post World war 2 and what happened there. SMU in college football comes closer perhaps if you look at that story. No bowl games no tv games no recruiting blah blah blah and give them the death sentence because their actions specifically compromised the integrity of college football.

You'd be surprised at how little meaning their trackers have for life outside EQ...these guys are still in the call off for work mode for killing EQ EMU raid bosses, lol.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Originally Posted by Azzbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'd be surprised at how little meaning their trackers have for life outside EQ...these guys are still in the call off for work mode for killing EQ EMU raid bosses, lol.

Perhaps. It certainly is possible to maintain uhh how many trackers for days on end. Requires a perverse sort of dedication but definitely doable. The problem is only certain people know to what extent the usage of said things were. Some people most likely were in fact just caught having it loaded from ez server but then again some of those use that as an excuse and used it to cheat on p99. Some people got hit by having others log in their toon. I guess my point was if you're using PED when you work out on your own to make you faster that is one thing. But once you enter competition any such use isn't just 'wrong' you are clearly using the same thing for the same reasons as you were before but now you added ethics and other considerations.

Relay team wins the gold medal at the olympics. Later tests positive for PEDs. Gold medals stripped from the team. Barred from competition. Do the people who paid for them to make appearances now become entitled to being compensated? Get their money back because they were victims of fraud (they weren't actually gold medalists they were cheaters) through lawsuits?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

And trust me, as most of you aware most guilds had people caught in some form or fashion. It wasn't just TR who had members busted but they did seem to be ones benefiting from such things here. How do you beat someone who has all these advantages? Poopsock? If you sit there for 3 days on the mobs spawn point then no matter what they have as an advantage you get the mob. Guys want an even playing field because they had the advantage that you didn't. Like a guy being in favor of more stringent drug testing when he knows what he uses is undetectable. Or that RTS player who wants a resource scarce map when they have resource cheats. Fog of war always enabled when they have the view map hack. This isn't an easy decision folks no matter what they decide but in the end it should come down to what is right, and just. I guess we shall see.

[Shiftin]

Shaere - Zero of the TR tracking accounts were banned. Your entire argument is predicated upon us using SEQ to track mobs being the reason we get so many and in two weeks we were cleaning up and the cheater .dlls were in effect, not a single one of our shared guild tracking bots was flagged. If you want, send me a tell in game and i can log on each of them in succession, un anon them and show you that they are tracking classes of adequate level in the zones mobs spawn in. Also, none of our pullers (bards) were flagged.

I have spent around 245 actual hours on tracking bots by mine and the guild's records. I can track while playing halo, online poker (back when it was around), watching TV, etc. Make fun of me for not having a life all you want for sitting home and tracking / doing these things instead of going out to bars, but i have a family and that's how i spend my time some nights after the kiddo is in bed.

Lots of folks in our guild have quite a few tracking hours. Having a guild with US, Euro and australian players + rewarding members for tracking is how we have such good tracking, despite what you continue to claim. I'm sorry you find this hard to believe, but it is the truth and supported by the evidence from the bannings.

[MelxDruid]

Planet from Severed Fennin ro? Rofl

I think anyone from Severed clearly remembers his lies.

[Morlaeth]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaere - Zero of the TR tracking accounts were banned. Your entire argument is predicated upon us using SEQ to track mobs being the reason we get so many and in two weeks we were cleaning up and the cheater .dlls were in effect, not a single one of our shared guild tracking bots was flagged. If you want, send me a tell in game and i can log on each of them in succession, un anon them and show you that they are tracking classes of adequate level in the zones mobs spawn in. Also, none of our pullers (bards) were flagged.

I have spent around 245 actual hours on tracking bots by mine and the guild's records. I can track while playing halo, online poker (back when it was around), watching TV, etc. Make fun of me for not having a life all you want for sitting home and tracking / doing these things instead of going out to bars, but i have a family and that's how i spend my time some nights after the kiddo is in bed.

Lots of folks in our guild have quite a few tracking hours. Having a guild with US, Euro and australian players + rewarding members for tracking is how we have such good tracking, despite what you continue to claim. I'm sorry you find this hard to believe, but it is the truth and supported by the evidence from the bannings.

I support this message.

[Enygma]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, none of our pullers (bards) were flagged.

um... Stefan?

Sworen