Riot kites then kills KT. Surprised no free Vulak after wiping on free attempt.

[Oldschoolplayer]

This thread is garbage. Everyone get over it and move on. The generalizations and accusations are laughable. The unwillingness to think of alternative explanations for any raid dispute is also laughable.

There is only toxicity if you let there be. Flame away though

[Skarne]

Originally Posted by Oldschoolplayer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread is garbage. Everyone get over it and move on. The generalizations and accusations are laughable. The unwillingness to think of alternative explanations for any raid dispute is also laughable.

There is only toxicity if you let there be. Flame away though

I agree with this fellow.

[Nexii]

We'll take Klaz I think it was far too obvious a train to be intentional

[Bardp1999]

Its all very simple

1) You have 2 raid entities.
2) Both have players spending full time job hours on tracking and screen sharing (40+ hours per week).
3) 1 guild wins 1 guild loses.
4) Losing guild does mental gymnastics to convince themselves the 40 hours they just spent tracking was worth it somehow.

[Twochain]

I skipped a few pages in this thread, and keep in mind i'm watching this video again today with my referee jersey on.

1. Of all the times that i've split mobs exactly where Riot/Kittens camp is, i've NEVER agro'd mobs that far. On top of that, I feel like that huge ramp breaks line of sight for the most part. For instance, an eyeball, (From my Anecdotal, non "i've tested these mechanics and i'm certain of it" opinion) at the top of that ramp will not agro mobs near the ramp to trips unless you go down the ramp. At the top, it never agros.

2. All the mobs run to the BACK of your raid, where I can all but Guarantee that if a train was flopped where it was, it wouldn't agro those players first.

3. I do not see a "Hitch" in agro. It looks like the train is dropped around Trips ramp. And IMMEDIATELY runs towards the BACK of your raid. Actually. Looking at this further, It looks like there are 3-4 mobs that drop agro, at around the 40-43 second mark. Then the entire train comes down from trips, agros the mobs that are dropped, and they all come towards your raid. Those mobs from trips Almost absolutely look like they were agro'd on someone in the back of your raid.

4. I don't believe that it would be possible for someone to flop that train at the bottom of the ramp and for the train to behave the way it did without prior agro. What class is Darmai? Looks like they were the first person attacked in that train. (51-52, Darmai gets double back stabbed for 2300 damage+ oof)

[xdrcfrx]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. I don't believe that it would be possible for someone to flop that train at the bottom of the ramp and for the train to behave the way it did without prior agro. What class is Darmai? Looks like they were the first person attacked in that train. (51-52, Darmai gets double back stabbed for 2300 damage+ oof)

This the easiest to answer - darmai is an enchanter, and he did cycle camp after mobs were brought partially up the ramp, which led to call for cycle camp.

From my vantage nearby, i didn't think the mobs got up the ramp far enough to aggro any of our raid at the top. none of our raid was down the ramp at any time, we gave the vanq trainaway and kite plenty of room.

if you all skate on this one because the OBS isn't clear enough, that's just the way the cookie crumbles I guess. I hope at least internally you all recognize that either klaz intentionally trained us, or made a serious error that resulted in the same, and that in either case regardless of the public fronting that's wrong. Not holding my breath, though.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This the easiest to answer - darmai is an enchanter, and he did cycle camp after mobs were brought partially up the ramp, which led to call for cycle camp.

From my vantage nearby, i didn't think the mobs got up the ramp far enough to aggro any of our raid at the top. none of our raid was down the ramp at any time, we gave the vanq trainaway and kite plenty of room.

if you all skate on this one because the OBS isn't clear enough, that's just the way the cookie crumbles I guess. I hope at least internally you all recognize that either klaz intentionally trained us, or made a serious error that resulted in the same, and that in either case regardless of the public fronting that's wrong. Not holding my breath, though.

Okay so from what I now understand, you guys claim that Klaz was at the back of your camp. How far from the camp would he be? Also I don't see in the fraps where he runs up the ramp to join your camp? Do ya'll have that part?

If he was in your camp, i'd expect the train to kill him pretty quickly. As he WOULD have more agro into the kite than your whole raid. In my opinion, as soon as Aoe's went out (which a shit load would go out right away) He would likely be one of the first 5 people who died.

Now on to the enchanter who died first. If he cycled camp, did he cast Rune 5 on people? If he casted Rune on somebody who did not cycle, that would absolutely explain why the train b lines it to the back and kills him first. VoG/C2 probably wouldn't put him that high on the agro table comparatively speaking, to say a cleric casting aego, etc. These are important things to consider. If he camped, logged back in, and sat there afk not casting a single thing on a single player, that's important to know.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay so from what I now understand, you guys claim that Klaz was at the back of your camp. How far from the camp would he be? Also I don't see in the fraps where he runs up the ramp to join your camp? Do ya'll have that part?

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuTFbTn4SY8

I asked them to link it last night, but they refused because they'd rather be obstinate jerks than actually provide evidence. Whatever.

Video shows Klaz run up the ramp. A loonnggg time later, train comes up. Assist is on someone named Hoyi, though, not Klaz.

Originally Posted by Twochain [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now on to the enchanter who died first. If he cycled camp, did he cast Rune 5 on people? If he casted Rune on somebody who did not cycle, that would absolutely explain why the train b lines it to the back and kills him first. VoG/C2 probably wouldn't put him that high on the agro table comparatively speaking, to say a cleric casting aego, etc. These are important things to consider. If he camped, logged back in, and sat there afk not casting a single thing on a single player, that's important to know.

The answer to why it attacked Darmai is in their previous post:

Originally Posted by xdrcfrx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This the easiest to answer - darmai is an enchanter, and he did cycle camp after mobs were brought partially up the ramp, which led to call for cycle camp.

If this is true, then he had the highest GUID on the players in zone table. I thought maybe Klaz had previously /q out and that would explain why it would attack him as early as it did. Here's the explanation:

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you log in to a zone, you are assigned a new GUID when added to the table of players in the zone. NPCs will aggro the player with the highest GUID when no players have threat and there are multiple players in range.

If Darmai cycled camp, this is why it went for him first.

[Twochain]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuTFbTn4SY8

I asked them to link it last night, but they refused because they'd rather be obstinate jerks than actually provide evidence. Whatever.

Video shows Klaz run up the ramp. A loonnggg time later, train comes up. Assist is on someone named Hoyi, though, not Klaz.



The answer to why it attacked Darmai is in their previous post:



If this is true, then he had the highest GUID on the players in zone table. I thought maybe Klaz had previously /q out and that would explain why it would attack him as early as it did. Here's the explanation:



If Darmai cycled camp, this is why it went for him first.

Interesting, I didn't know about the GUID mechanic. So if multiple level 60s are sitting down in a pack it will attack the person with the highest GUID first? In an agro order that is.

whythefuckamifrapsing1999content lmfao please make vulak into a race


If Klaz had agro onto the whole entire train, and stands up long enough for them to run from trips to twins, why were there mobs dropped before the big kite came in? The other fraps shows it better, but at the 1:33 mark on Runyan's fraps you can see mobs that are clearly unagro'd before the train runs down trips ramp.

[Twochain]

Also............

Why are we not racing for vulak with lockouts? LMAO. I can't believe people would rather deal with shit like this every single time there is a competitive Vulak... because Hurrrrr MaRiO KaRt???

Yeah racing wasn't classic. Neither was having two forces with 100 members each squaring off for a rooted Vulak every week. How many man hours have been spent on this petition by all three guilds + the forums looking at this shit... when it could have been settled in a 3 minute race?