Green should disallow GINA

[Bazia]

GINA is way more convenient and unclassic than tons of stuff staff have already removed (duxa ui, buff timers, etc)

using it should be considered patch evasion

[solleks]

is GINA a nice old lady or a hooker? it's hard to say from the name alone.

[kylok]

So... I don't use this program. But, how much of an advantage do you feel that it provides? What content can be done with it that could not be done without it?

[aaezil]

You dont need it to play if you actually read the screen or have a feel for how long buffs last (most old time players do)

Its kind of a gimmicky crutch for bad players mostly

[Trollhide]

Here's what GINA provides in a nutshell:

It shows a timer of Vox / Nagafen AoE that they cast every 12(?) seconds.

Raid leader guy on discord calls out this timer in voice chat

Any raid members using GINA also have a visual of the timer

50% of the raid ignores the timer & call anyway and eats the AoE



Literally the same thing can be accomplished by counting 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi... 12-Mississippi

[kylok]

Originally Posted by Trollhide [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here's what GINA provides in a nutshell:

It shows a timer of Vox / Nagafen AoE that they cast every 12(?) seconds.

Raid leader guy on discord calls out this timer in voice chat

Any raid members using GINA also have a visual of the timer

50% of the raid ignores the timer & call anyway and eats the AoE



Literally the same thing can be accomplished by counting 1-Mississippi, 2-Mississippi... 12-Mississippi

That's about what I figured... not sure why people are so upset about parsers and graphs...

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's about what I figured... not sure why people are so upset about parsers and graphs...

Some of us have made the argument that Discord and voice shouldn't be there for Green. Can't really enforce it. Again, why are people upset? if this is a genuine question then ask yourself why the devs here are going to such lengths to recreate the classic experience of original EQ.

Here, using 2019 tools to dominate a 1999 game that didn't have to take any of this into consideration in its game design as these things didn't exist. You can't have anything close, because exact is not possible, by bending and giving way to it just because.

A few times now I have responded to someone in these kinds of threads because they are not sure why people are upset about something so trivial. I suppose its one of those things that you get or you don't, you care or you don't and it just can't be helped otherwise.

Edit: In B4 someone asks why I am not using a computer from 1999 and a dial up service. It has been a defensive come back argument for these opinions. A quality CRT monitor would display EQ better and be what was used, I don't have one of those anymore.

[kylok]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some of us have made the argument that Discord and voice shouldn't be there for Green. Can't really enforce it. Again, why are people upset? if this is a genuine question then ask yourself why the devs here are going to such lengths to recreate the classic experience of original EQ.

Here, using 2019 tools to dominate a 1999 game that didn't have to take any of this into consideration in its game design as these things didn't exist. You can't have anything close, because exact is not possible, by bending and giving way to it just because.

A few times now I have responded to someone in these kinds of threads because they are not sure why people are upset about something so trivial. I suppose its one of those things that you get or you don't, you care or you don't and it just can't be helped otherwise.

It was a genuine question, and thank you for your response. I believe the devs are here to make a classic-as-possible EverQuest experience available to all in a living museum sort of fashion - from the server side. I feel they have done a great job so far and support their efforts and decisions.

Where we disagree is whether or not this tool allows players to dominate this game - I do not feel that it does. It appears quite convenient, having the in your face visual display that an ability is usable/buff timers/etc... but I'm not seeing anything that a player couldn't otherwise do without this tool. It's not doing anything like MQ or ShowEQ. This might allow a new player to continue playing a game that may otherwise quit, but I don't see it being the one thing they needed to suddenly become a skillful player.

I get where you're coming from, wanting the experience to be as stock and classic as possible for everyone. But a line has to be drawn somewhere in terms of enforcement of that ideal. It seems like they're doing everything they can, short of disabling the log file - which I do not believe will happen. This topic has been touched on before, although not this exact tool but another one that reads log files and displays your position on a map.
Third-party app rules question
Rogean stated "Programs that parse the log file are fine, as long as they do not do any type of automatic control/response/manipulation/macro on your character in place of manual control."

Logs are classic, they should be available in my opinion. Everyone's EQ experience was different back in the day. Yes, in terms of hardware and knowledge limitations (although not universally) but also in terms of game experience. Some were casual and never hit max level, some did casual pick up style raiding, some had pre-made groups, some people did raiding on a regular schedule... and you also had guilds like Fires of Heaven. There's lots of ways to play this game, we as players get the freedom to choose how to do that. The log file was an intentional tool given to the player in the original game. It should remain available to those who want to use it to recreate that style of game play that was being done by the top 1% guilds of the time by parsing the data.

[Ashenden]

Originally Posted by kylok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's about what I figured... not sure why people are so upset about parsers and graphs...

I dunno man, I question people who are going to play on Green but think stuff like this is totally fine and not at all advantageous.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Ashenden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno man, I question people who are going to play on Green but think stuff like this is totally fine and not at all advantageous.

I am of the same opinion but the counter argument has been made that this is classic, if its not allowed then workarounds will be put in place just like the luclin models. These things are egg timers with text displays, they just augment a persons potential but do not define it. The 1% had something like this back in the day and its unfair to them to not have it on Green for their classic experience.

I would suggest, like Kelz, to consider getting good or pounding sand. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As for Discord, the case had been made that RogerWilco was released in 1999. Because of this voice chat should be allowed and is classic, people made conference calls to play with friends so voice chat is classic for some. Discord though is more than simple chat but I doubt that will have any traction for an argument.