"Fair and legitimate chance at a target" (cont)

[Nexii]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's almost like there is a reason why every single major MMORPG (including Everquest) instanced content from 2003 onward.

This server intends to mimic (mostly) Everquest from a mechanical perspective in the appropriate era. 7 day respawns that drop 2-4 loot for 80 players. These problems are inherent with EQ of this era - there isn't enough content on the high end.

It's unlikely to change.
Don't like it? Play TAKP, P2002, Phinigel, etc.

Later MMOs instituted instanced content because it was cheaper to administer, not because it was inherently better.

You could have automated quakes every 7 days or so and no need for instances. It would still be open world competition.

The second issue is that blue is overpopulated. P99 would do better to shutter red and open another blue server. Red servers were never more than 10% of the playerbase on live either.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's almost like there is a reason why every single major MMORPG (including Everquest) instanced content from 2003 onward.

This server intends to mimic (mostly) Everquest from a mechanical perspective in the appropriate era. 7 day respawns that drop 2-4 loot for 80 players. These problems are inherent with EQ of this era - there isn't enough content on the high end.

It's unlikely to change.
Don't like it? Play TAKP, P2002, Phinigel, etc.

things could change very quickly if we got rid of the drugs at the very top of the raiding scene

[mattydef]

Do people not realize that almost everything about the current raid scene is un classic? Might as well go the extra mile and make it a little more tolerable for more than just the unemployed/retired/disabled.

[BallzDeep]

Originally Posted by mattydef [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do people not realize that almost everything about the current raid scene is un classic? Might as well go the extra mile and make it a little more tolerable for more than just the unemployed/retired/disabled.

Do you not realize that is impossible and someone will always go out of their way to go up and beyond? You put in a rotation and it's just a matter of time before more and more guilds join and one guild thinks that it's stupid they started with 3 guilds in the rotation and now there is 12. History will repeat itself. While the game isn't classic, neckbeards getting the mobs is classic in every open world game.

[mattydef]

Originally Posted by BallzDeep [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you not realize that is impossible and someone will always go out of their way to go up and beyond? You put in a rotation and it's just a matter of time before more and more guilds join and one guild thinks that it's stupid they started with 3 guilds in the rotation and now there is 12. History will repeat itself. While the game isn't classic, neckbeards getting the mobs is classic in every open world game.

I never said anything about a rotation smart guy. I'm sure everyone is willing to compete/race for fte, as long as they don't have to waste up to 16 hours of their time in order to try and do that. Last I checked standing in one spot looking at a wall didn't require any skill and isn't competitive at all, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Until the focus of competition is put specifically on the race for fte itself instead of the huge waiting windows, the people with the least amount of real life responsibilities will always have the edge. Lower variance, and i guarantee you will see way more people lining up to compete, but the neckbeards up top wouldn't want this because they pretend to want the challenge but once you take away their biggest advantage (no life) they will cry.

[JurisDictum]

I fundamentally disagree EQ was ever supposed to be about competition. At least, not on a PvE server.

I never gave one shit who the "best runner" on p99 was -- and almost no one else does either. There are literally like 20 guys that give it a second thought in the entire world. Frankly, a mental health professional would have a field day with them.

No substantial amount of people actually care about the competition on p99. It's too bad people can't just enjoy their childhood game without a group of no-lifers ruining it for them.

[Mistle]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fundamentally disagree EQ was ever supposed to be about competition. At least, not on a PvE server.

It definitely did not. Fact is the EQ devs didn't know wtf it was going to look like when EQ released. They only started to get any idea at all late in beta. The idea of sitting and camping mobs? Never occurred to them. They thought groups of people would get together and dive dungeons, moving as they went.

Obviously by the time Kunark released they had a better idea but Kunark's design was already well along by then. They did NOT embrace competition, they decided to try to lock the hardcore content behind a key that gated how many people could get into it.

It did not work.

Some servers enforced a rotation, some did not. Velious was the next try. Surely they could just put in enough content to keep everyone happy?

It did not work.

Luclin tried to do more. Yet more content, ring events, locking behind keys dropped by a cockblock mob, AND the monsters tuned so that the hardcore would be spending hours clearing and even fighting the boss mobs themselves rather than sniping at each other (VT under classic balance was quite the ordeal, as you guys might recall).

It did not work.

PoP was going to be the final try at it with a massive set of keyed boss raids but as it happened the dev team broke up (for the second time) during this period and the new people had a different idea. Fuck trying to manage the complaints coming from this retarded and unintended idea of "competition" - from this point on, they would just instance everything. No more competition.

This worked.

tl,dr: EQ was never intended to be about direct competition and those who think it was are the ones with a seriously deluded concept of the game, looked down on with bafflement by people who play games actually designed for competition from the start.

Seriously, though, it is embarrassing that we are even discussing this on the anniversary of the Bowling Green Massacre. Have you people no shame?

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I fundamentally disagree EQ was ever supposed to be about competition. At least, not on a PvE server.

I never gave one shit who the "best runner" on p99 was -- and almost no one else does either. There are literally like 20 guys that give it a second thought in the entire world. Frankly, a mental health professional would have a field day with them.

No substantial amount of people actually care about the competition on p99. It's too bad people can't just enjoy their childhood game without a group of no-lifers ruining it for them.

This is exactly what I think when people defend this system and call it "competing" for mobs.

Competition is found in PVP, and in the actual encounters of a raid involving players versus the mobs aka PVE.

When the most important factor that decides the success of a guild is having the most available time to sock mobs, that's not showcasing skill and that isn't being competitive.

That's just being greedy and using the word "competition" to justify the greed and unwillingness to share the games content with others who don't have endless time to sock.

I don't care tbh, I don't raid and I enjoy grouping or soloing more than raiding. I find fun everywhere except in the raid scene here.

That being said, I just can't help but grow weary of this talk about "competing" for mobs and racing, etc. this is total BS.

If A/A are so alpha and competitive, they should go to the red server where you actually have to compete and all of the lawyer questing is out the window.

Otherwise stop pretending this system is about competition. It's about monopolizing pixels by having the most available people who can sock an endless amount of time.

[Ravager]

The only ones who came to any realizations are the people who don't play here anymore.

[Phantasm]

You will always hit a dead end in rationalizing with people if you flat out say competition was never intended or isn't healthy for the server and its population. Fact is, many people enjoy the thrill of racing against runners or guilds to prep and engage targets. Straight up, that shit is a blast.

Now where I think you might have ground to communicate is the premise of variance. Variance is obviously one of the most talked about issues with the raid scene, but its proposed goal (stop poopsocking) obviously has had little effect (not to mention its nonclassicness!)

Reduced variance enables many people to make time to actually get on the line.

Three step solution to the raid scene:
Reduce variance to 2-4 hours
Biweekly repops with a +/- 3 day variance on Wednesdays.
Have any rules written enforced and leave anything unsaid permissible. If you don't write down rules, you can never expect people to follow them. Someone comes up with a strat that ultimately is deemed as wrong, write it down as a rule. if someone breaks it after that, suspend/ban them. No gray area bullshit, make a plain as day representation of the rules that you will enforce and leave everything else fair game.