Question about item camp handoffs

[-TK-]

Originally Posted by Wenuven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you skimmed over my post too quickly. That is exactly what I was suggesting--you are only responsible for keeping the one name that comes after you.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you specificly. Just happened to quote you on how this is already getting/can be overcomplicated. I agree with you that it should only be the next person in line.

[mr_jon3s]

I tried doing lists for camps but people have no courtesy. Camping an item and people askyou to add them to a list. I do and after a couple hours my item drops and I procede to go down the list of 5 people and not a single person is on. The least they could have done is let me know that they were logging and to take them off the list. I had other people stop by the camp ask if I had a list and how long it was. Once they found out it was 5+ they said nvm. Now I just give the camp to whoever is waiting there when im done.

[Utmost]

Journal Entry 1982:

Day 9: Temple of Droga

Chief/Bg still camped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM7YgpmfE2Y

[Derubael]

Will return shortly to finally murder this thread and answer all questions in one fell swoop. Before I go on break, however, something important to remember, because everyone is making these so much more complicated than they need to be:

For anyone familiar with the old, Xzerion created (or at least posted - I don't know if he created them) camp rules, these are absolutely identical in every single way with the one new addition being that players have to reveal the name of the next person in line to take the camp. This is to prevent situations such as cecily highlighted earlier - wanting to "reserve the camp" for a guildie - that's all great and fine is you know who that guildie will be, but if you don't, you need to be honest and let that poor guy asking you for the next shot have the next shot when you're finished. If you do know whos next, that guy can literally be anywhere in the entirety of Norrath and come when it's his turn and no sooner and have 100% legit claim to be handed that camp. This is the way it's worked since 2010 - and it won't be modified anytime soon. As many of you may remember, the actual concept of a "list" was non-existent in that rule-set; you either had someone in line, or you didn't, and it didn't really go past that. People were of course allowed to make "impromptu" lines, but these would need to be individually verified and confirmed by each person waiting to take their turn, and anyone could easily say "no person waiting here, I want Jonnaaay to have it because he's my pal" so long as he didn't defraud you by assuring you a spot after him earlier.

I had a handful of ideas on ways to make this ... a bit more classic-like, but I know for sure this exact system was used on servers during classic, it's just than another "line based" system was more popular - its also however, more complicated for CSR to regulate, and relies heavily on people not being giant douchebags when a camp isn't handed to them. I'm trying to minimize my wonderful Guides dispute related headaches everytime I write out rules for clarification or simply because they needed to be updated and/or changed from outdated entries. This is one of those cases where it's almost exactly the same rules we've used forever on this server, with that one minor exception.

Will get down to the nitty gritty a little while later (there was someone earlier in this thread gunning for a lawyer spot on the TMO/IB team - or it looked that way at least. You should never try to rule lawyer the guy who wrote the rule you're attempting to lawyer - it's rude, and I ensure that every rule is written so that rule lawyers can be mercilessly crushed even with the most clever arguments - I've gotten very good at doing all updates/rewrites this way, and always look forward to testing that theory. Cant wait to test it once again!) I hope this clears up some issues that were being asked. If you keep your understanding of this rule-set simple, you won't have a problem, because it's meant to be easy to understand on all levels.

[M.J.]

First Scenario

Been in a camp for a hour or two, I'm a wimpy ass caster that visits a vendor in a zone to convert coin and sell as often as old people visit the bathroom. Between respawns I gate to vendor, up run back because I'm a peasant without Jboots (this is a lie, but making hypothetical lowbie sympathetic to the max) and a mob that has been up for less than 10 seconds is now being engaged. This camp has say, 3-4 spawns all within sight of each other. The player that is doing the killing has been sitting AFK nearby and killing a single spawn or occasionally popping up from his afk to hate stare at me and run around my camp then go back to being afk.

The Question: Is it his camp now? Can I prevent this scenario by sending this guy a tell and logging / screenshotting his vulture status? Is vendoring / temporary absences allowed within reason (back before even a single respawn, an announcement you are making a vendor run if the person is in zone) or are bathroom breaks and vendor runs game over?

Second Scenario

I do a camp check and a necro or shaman claims to be doing a 6-8 spawn camp solo. I run through and check on the camp and the guy is doing half of the spawns available within the camp and leaving one room up consistently. Basically he's capable of doing one full room and an extra spawn if he doesn't get any resists. I now ask him if he's killing all the mobs and just taking a med break, he says he is. I decide I'd like to see that so I sit down next to his ass and he needs my help not to die because he was full of crap and only capable of doing the one room.

The Question: Can I petition this sonuvbitch for monopolizing and lying about the camp? To me this is even worse than the wait list problem, lying about a camp or the situation in it (players sneaking / invis / hidden near by claiming the camp when no group is there) and has to be done with the intent of misleading others. It's one thing if you are taking a med break or piss break after 3 hours of continuous killing. That or maybe a bad set of resists and mobs are still up, it's another to never have the camp in the first place and lie to keep a minor advantage / claim a larger camp than you are actually capable of doing right then.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Walth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a few.

Let's translate this to real life.

I'm at a sports bar, watching a big game. I have a nice seat right at the bar - enjoying some guy time while my family is out.

Dude comes up behind me, "hey man, mind holding that seat for me when you leave?"

Me, "Sure, I can do that"

5 mins later, hey bro, can i have your seat when your done?
Me, "I mean, there is someone else waiting, I guess if he isn't around I'll search for you..

10 mins later, 3rd guy wants my seat, asks the same thing.

Why the fuck would I want to end my evening searching for guys who probably have already found another seat? Like I said, I'll ask the original, but don't expect further than that. Not my responsibility.

Granted that scenario most likely wouldn't happen, but same principle.

Comparing holding a camp list at sheer hell drudgery ph camps to holding a seat at a raucous sports bar is a stretch, isn't it?

Completely different respawn rates, lots of roamers, etc.

[Kreylyn]

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First Scenario

Been in a camp for a hour or two, I'm a wimpy ass caster that visits a vendor in a zone to convert coin and sell as often as old people visit the bathroom. Between respawns I gate to vendor, up run back because I'm a peasant without Jboots (this is a lie, but making hypothetical lowbie sympathetic to the max) and a mob that has been up for less than 10 seconds is now being engaged. This camp has say, 3-4 spawns all within sight of each other. The player that is doing the killing has been sitting AFK nearby and killing a single spawn or occasionally popping up from his afk to hate stare at me and run around my camp then go back to being afk.

The Question: Is it his camp now? Can I prevent this scenario by sending this guy a tell and logging / screenshotting his vulture status? Is vendoring / temporary absences allowed within reason (back before even a single respawn, an announcement you are making a vendor run if the person is in zone) or are bathroom breaks and vendor runs game over?

The rules state that short absence like that are allowable and you retain the camp. The key points here... didn't leave the zone for the vendor, and the spawn was not up for any significant amount of time. Yes, communication would probably help prevent the guy waiting from thinking you have left the camp clear for him, so yeah... you might wanna send that tell just so you can work it out before it's a problem.

Originally Posted by M.J. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Second Scenario

I do a camp check and a necro or shaman claims to be doing a 6-8 spawn camp solo. I run through and check on the camp and the guy is doing half of the spawns available within the camp and leaving one room up consistently. Basically he's capable of doing one full room and an extra spawn if he doesn't get any resists. I now ask him if he's killing all the mobs and just taking a med break, he says he is. I decide I'd like to see that so I sit down next to his ass and he needs my help not to die because he was full of crap and only capable of doing the one room.

The Question: Can I petition this sonuvbitch for monopolizing and lying about the camp? To me this is even worse than the wait list problem, lying about a camp or the situation in it (players sneaking / invis / hidden near by claiming the camp when no group is there) and has to be done with the intent of misleading others. It's one thing if you are taking a med break or piss break after 3 hours of continuous killing. That or maybe a bad set of resists and mobs are still up, it's another to never have the camp in the first place and lie to keep a minor advantage / claim a larger camp than you are actually capable of doing right then.

You should speak with the necro and declare your intent on wanting to share the mobs. You should work out an amicable resolution, say... split the mobs. He had the camp first so gets to pick what mob he wants (rules state details on picking, maintaining presence, so on) but he does have to be able to kill them or the PH for them, or you guys amicably decide how to split the mobs, or you team up and take all the mobs for now. If he refuses to do anything, then yes... a petition can be made and a Guide will make a decision about it. If you force your way in and take the second room of your scenario and he petitions, then a guide will probably show up to make a decision as well. The rules are worded in a way that allows the decision to be completely up to the discretion of the guide that responds, but it does strongly suggest that people who are unreasonable or won't share probably won't like the result, or if you both don't... they will probably like it the least. :lol:.

Just my interpretation... I'm sure someone of authority can correct me if I'm wrong.

Krey

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Kreylyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rules state that short absence like that are allowable and you retain the camp.

Oh cool, so we're allowed to go off and buff people during the spawn window? I was unaware of that.. I did once doing the HBC and someone came in and I gave them the camp because I was under the impression that the rules say if you leave the room or general spawn area, you forfeit the camp. Could someone confirm this? or could you link this? or derb if you read this could you put addendum 33 that spotlights this in your next writeup lol

Heh every time this happens I always give people the opportunity to say, 'oh you were out buffing people? oh by all means since you knew the timer, keep the camp cus its just a little old game we both love.' Cus im a jerk that likes to test peoples goodness.. like an evil Jesus. But they never do and I only like to argue Taylor Swift, so I go back to just enjoying the norrathian views.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...
Heh every time this happens I always give people the opportunity to say, 'oh you were out buffing people? oh by all means since you knew the timer, keep the camp cus its just a little old game we both love.' Cus im a jerk that likes to test peoples goodness.. like an evil Jesus. But they never do and I only like to argue Taylor Swift, so I go back to just enjoying the norrathian views.

It's sad that courteous/thoughtful behavior is uncommon enough that when you have 3 or 4 consecutive positive interactions with random campers it feels like you've stepped into the twilight zone, you have to slap yourself upside the head a couple times just to make sure you haven't slipped into a delusional coma. It's not that nobody's acting like decent adults, just that so many act like self-serving/entitled/never-disciplined children so often. (And then you get to the high-end content and discover that on p99 "high-end" is code for "inhabited by self-important slime-spewing douchenozzles and toolbags.")

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's sad that courteous/thoughtful behavior is uncommon enough that when you have 3 or 4 consecutive positive interactions with random campers it feels like you've stepped into the twilight zone, you have to slap yourself upside the head a couple times just to make sure you haven't slipped into a delusional coma. It's not that nobody's acting like decent adults, just that so many act like self-serving/entitled/never-disciplined children so often. (And then you get to the high-end content and discover that on p99 "high-end" is code for "inhabited by self-important slime-spewing douchenozzles and toolbags.")

True dat.. by the time your 57 youve turned into this no matter how much like greengrocer you were when you started.

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