Building a Mosque??? WTF

[eqdruid76]

Originally Posted by Bodeanicus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Old Testament in the King James Bible is full of similar shit. Does that make all Christians blood thirsty zealots? Should we judge all Christians by those lunatics fucks who protest soldier's funerals? No, and we shouldn't judge all Muslims but some backwards shit in their holy book either. Punish the individuals transgressors, not the people as a whole.

Deep down, it sure does.

Thou shalt not kill......unless it's in the name of God, then it's fine.

Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.......except we can't agree on what day the Sabbath actually is.

Thou shalt not worship any graven images.....now turn on your televisions and send my evangelists money to heal you.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife....unless thy neighbor is Brad Pitt.

And so on...

[Enderenter]

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With all due respect, let's try this generalization:

Not all muslims are terrorists. But most terrorists are muslims. Fact.

Actually, if you look at the % of terrorists in the world I would have to say more are represented by the religion of Christianity than Islam. KKK, LRA, abortion clinic bombers, just to name a few. They certainly far outweigh (in terms of numbers of people) Al-Qaeda. It would be an interesting study to do, but I'm fairly certain Islam would not be at the top few spots.

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In a broader sense, all muslims -are- terrorists... especially if you are a woman. Because all over the world, Islam encourages oppression and violence towards women. Fact.

Is your ethnocentrism really so overpowering that you think that women across the board are treated worse in Islamic culture than in Western culture?

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So before you tell me that those are generalizations are somehow faulty, make sure that you have -facts- to support your assertion... because I can promise you that I'll respond with page after page of facts, which make it very clear that my generalization is fundamentally accurate. Including some quotations taken directly from the Koran, which speak quite plainly about murdering "infidels" and treating women like slaves.

I guess you are well versed the Qu'ran. Or maybe you have never read it.

In the case of the latter, I have studied the Qu'ran and spoken with non-Muslim Arabic experts who say that the verses about violence towards infidels are only in the time of war, when a treaty is broken by the opposing "infidels", or in defense. No where does it say to murder infidels who have done nothing.

Originally Posted by Rasterburn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Feel free to invalidate anything that I have said in my previous post. Be sure to cite reliable sources, and not simply personal opinions.

And please remember something important: exceptions do not invalidate the rule. That's why we call them "exceptions." If your Muslim high school buddy (or whatever) is a good guy, then that's great. But there are 1.5 billion Muslims in this world, and the overwhelming majority of them fit my previous description perfectly.

I guess you know the overwhelming majority of Muslims then? Or are you just stating personal opinions?

I am by no means a Muslim. I am just seeking peace between people in the West and the East. Let's not allow ourselves to be blinded by historically motivated hatred stemming from the Crusades and continuing today with the act of 9/11. The terrorists' chief goal is for there to be no peace. Our goal should not be in line with theirs.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by Enderenter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is your ethnocentrism really so overpowering that you think that women across the board are treated worse in Islamic culture than in Western culture?

this.

commercially altering model's appearances to billboard them and encite young girls to buy products and hate themselves (example) is really just our sociopathic version of forcing them to cover their entire bodies.

^ which by the way many Muslim women prefer as it allows them fair treatment regardless of how their appearance is.

[Reiker]

The "fact" that most terrorists are muslims is bullshit. Most televised terrorists are muslim, yeah probably. I'm sure there's tons of organizations in Africa that you could consider "terrorist groups" except they're killing each other instead of us so no one cares.

[Enderenter]

Originally Posted by Reiker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "fact" that most terrorists are muslims is bullshit. Most televised terrorists are muslim, yeah probably. I'm sure there's tons of organizations in Africa that you could consider "terrorist groups" except they're killing each other instead of us so no one cares.

Couldn't agree more.

[purist]

You gotta love the colonial feminists in this thread. These are people who, in any other context, behave as the noted male chauvinists and misogynists that they are. But when the topic turns to the Middle East or Islam, all of a sudden they're champions of the feminist cause, advocating a worldwide campaign of waging wars for the liberation of women (on behalf of the White Man, of course).

That's not to say there aren't any valid critiques of womens' status in different Muslim societies, each with their own colonial history. But the type of reductionism many of my fellow atheists engage in, wherein it's all inherently religion's fault.. "The oppresion of women in ___ country is all ___ religion's fault" is just obdurate, willful ignorance. I don't believe you can view religion in a vacuum, as an isolated force removed from any broader political context. The predominant factor determining the role Islam plays and character it takes from Afghanistan to Bosnia to Indonesia is going to reflect the material conditions of that country. This is as opposed to it being a reflection of the inherent character of the religion. Religion is rooted in specific socio-economic conditions and until those are transformed simply dealing with the superstructure means nothing. Base determines superstructure. These issues are linked to culture, misogyny, poverty and above all: the male fear of female advancement.

Then again, that type of dialogue is way above the heads of most people here. Carry on.

[azeth]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's not to say there aren't any valid critiques of womens' status in different Muslim societies, each with their own colonial history. But the type of reductionism many of my fellow atheists engage in, wherein it's all inherently religion's fault.. "The oppresion of women in ___ country is all ___ religion's fault" is just obdurate, willful ignorance. I don't believe you can view religion in a vacuum, as an isolated force removed from any broader political context. The predominant factor determining the role Islam plays and character it takes from Afghanistan to Bosnia to Indonesia is going to reflect the material conditions of that country. This is as opposed to it being a reflection of the inherent character of the religion. Religion is rooted in specific socio-economic conditions and until those are transformed simply dealing with the superstructure means nothing. Base determines superstructure. These issues are linked to culture, misogyny, poverty and above all: the male fear of female advancement.
.

no kidding, thanks for clearing that up for no one.

[Enderenter]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no kidding, thanks for clearing that up for no one.

Actually, I think he hit a key issue, though his response seems directed not at me or you, but those in the thread who are attacking Islam based on women's rights. (among other things)

[azeth]

I'm sorry but if anyone (regardless of which you're on) is formulating their opinion based on anyone's responses in this thread, you should not be posting.


This includes my own responses. Who the fuck am I to you? I'm grew up a rich white bleeding heart liberal, did you? Why believe me? Why take my perspective?

[Enderenter]

Originally Posted by azeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm sorry but if anyone (regardless of which you're on) is formulating their opinion based on anyone's responses in this thread, you should not be posting.


This includes my own responses. Who the fuck am I to you? I'm grew up a rich white bleeding heart liberal, did you? Why believe me? Why take my perspective?

I never said I was formulating my opinion based on anything in this thread... I merely thought he made a good point.

Everyone should formulate their own opinion based on reason.