Women of Norrath, what's your experience?

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Laledorie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow this is sad, it's turned into a woman hating board. Sorry that you guys have had such shitty experiences with women. All I can say is that we aren't all so vile. >.<

How you doin?

[Gadwen]

Fact of the matter is that vast majority of EQ players, male or female, are creepers.

[jaybone]

The problem is females suck ass at everquest.

[Mithan]

This thread makes me sad. Of course there will be people taking advantage of other people, of course there will be cheating, relationship breaking up, and drama. This is all pretty common things humans do, but blaming a gender for it is quite short sighted. There are many factors at play.

Fact is MMOs are predominantly male populated. Because of this, female player will get a lot more opportunities to engage in these behaviors, and statistically, will be involved in the drama more often than their male counterpart. That doesn't make it a gender specific thing.

Fact also is, humans crave intimacy. A lot of people who are either insecure, not confident enough, to enjoy the more traditional ways of finding intimacy (bar scene, clubs etc), will naturally revert to other hobbies, like MMOs, and seek relationships through these, behind the comfort of a screen and keyboard. it's all pretty normal and human. (I'm not saying all MMO players are insecure, I'm saying if you compare the populations of regular bar hoppers to regular MMO players, there will be a greater proportion of bar hoppers who are confident in, and enjoy, the flirting/dating game).

I've had my share of drama. I've gotten involved in romantic relationships with women in EQ back in the back in the days, twice.

The first girl I ended up figuring out was 'seeing' multiple guys and didn't have much interest in anything but casual, which is not what I was looking for. The fact that it was in an MMO, and physical contact because of the distance was infrequent, made it easier for her to be dishonest and hide her other relationships - but other than that, it could have happened anywhere else.

The 2nd girl I've been married to for 10 years, and we're happy as shit.

Please don't let your opinion of a gender get tainted because of appearances, you'll be the one suffering from it in the end.

As for females being bad at everquest, I'm just going to say... LOL. I've met kickass female player, average female players, and sucky one. Just like males.

[Thulack]

Originally Posted by Joyelle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't feel like I have ever received preferential treatment for being female playing MMOs. On the other hand I don't feel like I've ever been treated badly because of it either. I don't go out of my way to tell people I am a girl but if someone asks me I don't have a reason to lie about it.

The most mind-boggling thing that happens to me is that occasionally someone doesn't believe I am actually female IRL. At that point I don't really care if anyone believes me, because I don't have anything to prove to anyone on P99. The only people who really matter to me have heard me talk in TS, and know whether or not I am.

There is that one guy every once in awhile that is creepy and pervy (especially after hearing me talk in TS) but those experiences are pretty far and few between.

You should hear her in TS too. 5 dollars for 10 mins to chat with her [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Erica]

First off, there are a lot of people of both genders who suck, are average, and great at games. It seems like if a guy is horrible, they are just remembered as a bad player. If a woman is horrible, they are remembered as a bad female player.

People encounter women who either don't want to play or who are doing content they are not good enough for because their boyfriend or husband is getting them to give the game a try. He does the hard content, and she has no idea what is going on. Not necessarily because she sucks at games, but because she is new but is not going through the normal "new" process. I would see this happen on DDO, where the new person should be doing normal to learn the game, not the hardest setting.

Also, another part of the problem with bad players are, guys will sometimes just let women play poorly and stay in the group when those same guys would kick a male player out, or be more harsh on him playing bad. The guy who was told what he is doing wrong and/or booted will be forced to correct their mistakes or stop playing. If the female is playing poorly but you just let her do it, she probably doesn't even realize she is playing poorly. Then she gets to a high level by being carried through the content and other guys who group with them think, "Wow this woman sucks... women are so bad at this game."

As far as free items go, I've never been given more when I was new to a game than I give to random people who need help. I'm sure this happens sometimes, but not often. I think guys have confirmation bias. Some people just think this is the norm when it isn't. The ones who "test" this think someone is being kind to them on their male character, and then their female character is shown this same kindness and "omgz womenz get the free stuffs! I knew it!"

[Ugrask]

Well I think the letting women stick around thing is the whole double standard of if they ridicule her, they'd be sexist etc.(which is stupid, just call someone out on something, offer advice without focusing on gender by derogatory terms etc.)

It's why, while I eventually came to detest my old raid guild, I appreciated the fact everyone was treated the same as far as fuckups go. Everyone got bitched at/sat.

And the items thing, just like everything in life people see one instance of something where someone got something they didn't and boom clouds their whole mindset. That's just people being narrow and greedy, while needing an outlet for frustration.

[Roth]

I have a weird opinion on this thread, I think I'm going to white knight a bit actually. I think some of the posts in this thread have been ridiculously sexist tbh. Honestly when I was younger and to a degree now I wouldn't really trust a female to be good at the game. On average I think male gamers tend to be more hardcore for whatever reason. So I suppose a female has to "prove herself" to me so to speak.

I believe in this thread there were actually some great posts by females that made me respect them quite a bit with how they presented their viewpoints. Very fair and rational posts that express the truth of the situation: there is some sexism, some deserved, some undeserved. However, some of the replies to them were pretty fucking disgusting. You shouldn't call someone a whore just because they're a female... it's just kind of terrible. If this was reversed for whatever reason and a female said in a one line post "all men are sex hungry pigs" it would be pretty offensive.

Idk, I think this notion that "anyone who white knights is just pathetic and looking for sex" has to stop. Some of the things people have said in this thread have been way over the top and someone should call them out, but no one wants to be labeled as a white knight. It's kinda sad when our society has evolved to a point where it's better to trash females and treat them as horribly as possible rather than defend them.

I also didn't really like people discrediting hafu. They kicked her out cause of bad performance then a new team picked her up and beat the old team... to say fuck you to them? What? Think about what you just said and you will see that you are going out of your way to discredit her because she is female. Not all female gamers are good but if one is outstanding at multiple games you have to give them respect, you would respect a male gamer with those kind of results.

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think I'm going to white knight a bit actually.

Go for it!

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think some of the posts in this thread have been ridiculously sexist tbh.

I think you're totally right.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly when I was younger and to a degree now I wouldn't really trust a female to be good at the game. On average I think male gamers tend to be more hardcore for whatever reason. So I suppose a female has to "prove herself" to me so to speak.

Wait, what was that about white-knighting and not being sexist? Cause this is pretty fucking sexist.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe in this thread there were actually some great posts by females that made me respect them quite a bit with how they presented their viewpoints.

So you're a chauvinist, too?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is some sexism, some deserved, some undeserved.

What, exactly, the fuck is "deserved sexism"?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this was reversed for whatever reason and a female said in a one line post "all men are sex hungry pigs" it would be pretty offensive.

Is that deserved sexism? Or are you just achieving perfect empathy with all the ladies you slighted by stating that women have to "prove themselves" to be decent at a game?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some of the things people have said in this thread have been way over the top and someone should call them out

I thought so, too - thus my post.

[August]

My wife played WoW with me at a competitive level for 3 years. I was the guild leader for a well-known, highly-ranked horde US guild from classic (molten core) -> TBC (black temple / hyjal).

I gotta say that people's reaction to her being a woman was a huge obstacle for her, myself, and ultimately lead to her quitting the game.

Story time? Story time.

It started innocently enough. We were in a guild that was originally formed in WC3 that was the first guild to down Onyxia. Leader was an asshat, we reformed. That leader was an asshat, and then we reformed again. I was elected leader. I modeled the guild after the only successful guild I had been in to date - a guild on Veeshan server in EQ called Primus Exodus.

Around the second reform my wife (then just a girlfriend) had started to play to spend more time with me - we were doing a long distance thing, and in addition to nightly calls we could play the game together.

It was her first MMO and she ended up being very decent - she wasn't a pro player by any means, but she caught up quickly playing a warlock.

When she hit max level, i knew she could raid - I'd seen her play in all the dungeons up to raid, and we were critically short on warlocks. If you played during molten core, you would know how essential warlocks were in so many battles. I petitioned to let her move to from a 'casual' rank to a 'raider' rank. This is where things started their downward trend that would eventually culminate in me and my wife quitting the game.

At first it was just called out as blatant favoritism. "The guild leader's whore" - this was a term that people used. Mainly behind my back, but of course I would find out. We were on progression mobs which entailed many, many wipes. The overreaction to any wipe caused by her, in comparison to the multitude of wipes caused by a LOT of our raiding members, was out of this world. There would be disproportionate bitching and moaning anytime she got interrupted before a banish or heaven forbid she forget to cast soulstone.

It then rollercoastered into her being 'bad all the time'. This was really before the advent of DPS meters, and people would complain that she was doing her rotation wrong or not pulling her weight. This was actually a catalyst to make dps meters 'mandatory'. When doing so, we discovered something magical - of all the warlocks, she was typically the top dps. Hooray! Problem solved? Not even close.

After she had established her 'right to raid' - a feat that literally no one else was put through, she then had to deal with creepers. People would send her suggestive messages alllll the time. There was a group of people in guild that would make alts and ask her inappropriate questions. We had several people end up getting kicked out of our guild because of this ongoing behavior - people really seemed to have a problem with her, despite the fact that she rarely, if ever, talked in vent, always showed up, on time, to raids, and never caused any drama beyond the typical loot-drama that accompanies a DKP system.

When TBC came out we all leveled up and she decided to reroll into a new class. She had the alt, a shaman, already geared up from alt runs.

At the time, she was playing a very unpopular spec - the 'elemental shaman'. Those of you who might remember, there was a time when ele shamans only had 1 instant, no DoTs, and no way to cast while they moved. Blizzard has since rectified this issue, but the overarching complaint was that on movement based fights (read: all) ele shaman just couldn't keep up. Analysis showed them bottom of DPS, just below boomkins.

So we got to raiding shortly after TBC released, Karazhan, and that's when the shit storm blew up once again. Coming in at 6th place, even though she was off by maybe a half percent of total dmg from 5th, was a huge confidence killer. She was ridiculed for being 'bad' at her class. Melee shamans were way outperforming at this point, and her contribution was being downplayed. Never mind the fact that she was part of a group that was server first to clear Kara - that she played a class with tangible benefits to our caster dps -- that she had clutch instant heals when needed -- that she provided bloodlust and never fucked up -- her marginally less dps than the mage was enough for her to get tormented by members of our guild. It goes without saying that on times she raided with 'pugs' she was number 1 dps by a wide margin.

Convinced of her inability to play as a girl, people started openly bashing her whenever I wasn't online -- in guild chat, in private message, etc. When I logged on, it would magically stop.

Eventually we had to give up. She couldn't log on without me being on. It got to the point where I didn't want to log on, so she couldn't either. I ended up mailing the entirety of our guild bank to the next in command, and deguilded myself, and quit WoW.

In our entire raiding history, she was the only openly female raider in our guild. It was my experience that she was much more heavily scrutinized than others, excluded from a lot of activities, and usually accused of being the 'worst' player when I know for a fact she was far from it.

I'm 100% positive it was conflated with me being the guild leader. Back then, leader was a full-time job for me in addition to anything else I had going on. A 40 man raid meant at least 66 active raiders, constant recruitment, and tons of drama.

However, because of that situation, I can barely get my wife to play any online games with me now. She's always very self conscious bout playing - about 'messing up' despite my assurances that she does a great job.

She did play here for a bit, but ultimately quit because of some real life obligations. I asked her to come back and play with me but she said she was strapped on cash and needed to save up. I asked her how much and she replied to the tune of $3.50. Well about that time I realized she was an 8 story tall crustacean from the paleozoic era! I screamed 'Goddam loch ness monster! Get off my lawn!"

boy I was angry