Re: Raid Situation

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The flaw in this thinking is that one of the server's stated purposes is to let people experience content that was otherwise unavailable to them. Casuals have a reasonable expectation to meaningfully participate in endgame content on a reasonable basis.

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Where is that stated?

[Joroz]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The flaw in this thinking is that one of the server's stated purposes is to let people experience content that was otherwise unavailable to them. Casuals have a reasonable expectation to meaningfully participate in endgame content on a reasonable basis.

The standard by which loot is earned is killing the mob. That's it; nothing is being handed out or going unearned. One person working harder for their kills does nothing to lessen the objective value of another person's kills. FTE competition is desirable and fun for many people, but don't move the goal posts by holding others up to the heightened standard you might establish for yourself.

looks like they are still trying to figure out whose "reasonable basis" is best for the server.

[chickmagnet]

not necessarily, u could actually raid those zones when they are in window or be using the time while your trying to validate your point with a window up watching for spawn....u guys have over a 100 members....168 hours in a week...that's less than 2 hours a week each of you would have to track for a mob...if that doesn't work, disband your guild and join 1 that has a little motivation behind it and see more content

[Fuddwin]

TL;DR

Poor BDA (Variety)

[chickmagnet]

there are plenty of other emu servers they can experience the same content, if I was in a casual raiding guild and didn't want to compete, I wouldn't want end game items is all im saying, plenty of planar gear to go around, but because u take tier 1 guilds out, other guilds will step up to compete for those mobs....remove tmo, you have FE, remove them you still have IB with FE's loot, remove them, Taken and/or BDA will step up....always someone will step up to take up the slack to make this game constantly competitive

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by chickmagnet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there are plenty of other emu servers they can experience the same content

Then it's just as fair to say that the raid guilds can go to other servers.

The point is that the developers have told us that the raid guilds go too far when they dominate content in perpetuity. Especially when their primary reason is to stifle the progression of others. I'm not saying that people shouldn't play hard; I am simply stating that it is unreasonable to categorically exclude all but the elite from getting any kills. It is equally unreasonable to call their loot unearned by holding others to artificially high standards for "earning loot" that the P99 hardcore have.

Classic EQ had hardcore guilds that would be laughably casual by P99's standards. Many guilds here fit the bill for what was once considered hardcore, and they experienced many kills in classic. They never dominated perhaps, but neither were they categorically excluded from all endgame content. A server that provides a Classic Experience (P99) certainly includes the notion that dragon kills will sometimes be earned by those who do not compete as fiercely as those at the top. Those kills will not be the bleeding edge of content (say, VP), but kills will still be had on a reasonable basis.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then it's just as fair to say that the raid guilds can go to other servers. The point is that the developers have told us that the raid guilds go too far when they dominate content in perpetuity. Especially when their primary reason is to stifle the progression of others. I'm not saying that people shouldn't play hard; I am simply stating that it is unreasonable to hold others to artificially high standards for "earning loot."

Classic EQ had hardcore guilds that would be laughably casual by P99's standards. Many guilds here fit the bill for what was once considered hardcore, and they experienced many kills in classic. They never dominated perhaps, but neither were they categorically excluded from all endgame content. A server that provides a Classic Experience (P99) certainly includes the notion that dragon kills will sometimes be earned by those who do not compete as fiercely as those at the top. Those kills will not be the bleeding edge of content (say, VP), but kills will still be had on a reasonable basis.

Ukinda forgot casuals low levels players whined cried because they got excluded at first from zones like pov,bot, hoh.... in planes of power.

They won although they spend months crying because it was impossible for them finish the old trials and get flaged .

Albeit the xp nerf post it was seriusly a factor for the decline of the zones.and lets not taslk about expansions like oow at the very first.

[Frieza_Prexus]

The point is that the terms casual and hardcore are relative, but the level of effort invested has not changed from live to P99.

The average P99 hardcore would be among the most elite of EQ Live players in terms of dedication. The average hardcore on live would fall somewhere between tier 1 and 2 on P99. P99 casuals are generally at the same level of effort and activity as many of the hardcores of EQ live. For the amount of effort that many Tier 2 guilds on p99 spend, they would have achieved reasonably regular boss kills back on EQ Live. P99 strives to recreate the average classic experience (which is actually somewhat difficult given the differences between the various live servers). The resulting gestalt should, invariably, include a scenario wherein the casuals (BY P99 STANDARDS) see boss kills every now and then.

The amount of effort by Tier 2's here would result in some kills on live. Thus, a classic server will strive to enable that expectation on a reasonable basis. Categorical exclusion from most boss encounters is not classic.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The point is that the terms casual and hardcore are relative, but the level of effort invested has not changed from live to P99.

The average P99 hardcore would be among the most elite of EQ Live players in terms of dedication. The average hardcore on live would fall somewhere between tier 1 and 2 on P99. P99 casuals are generally at the same level of effort and activity as many of the hardcores of EQ live. For the amount of effort that many Tier 2 guilds on p99 spend, they would have achieved reasonably regular boss kills back on EQ Live. P99 strives to recreate the average classic experience (which is actually somewhat difficult given the differences between the various live servers). The resulting gestalt should, invariably, include a scenario wherein the casuals (BY P99 STANDARDS) see boss kills every now and then.

The amount of effort by Tier 2's here would result in some kills on live. Thus, a classic server will strive to enable that expectation on a reasonable basis. Categorical exclusion from all boss encounters is not classic.

Different ages, its very easy to claim it now , try it back then with no strat leaks , no tricks, no ventrilo......

list can go to infinitum.

while i dont deny casuals should see boss up and ATTEMP() and i hope they win , i dont want anyone to wipe and have a cr imo i want to know what happen with the other side of the coin.


is the eternal conflictand one of the main reason gaming industry have turned into wow style . this server mechanics try to replicate the everquest we had back then but either we are the same persons , either its the same for everyone as every server in everquest was a different universe.



How u balance it? i got no fucking clue .last proposal tried to appeal both sides and it failed due to the boycott of a a side of the server.

at the very end its a Rogean decision , either he nail it and make everyone happy or he pick a side or just shut down the server in angry at the pure mess casuals and raider are doing .


We gotta realize one thing, at some point even if velious hit , population will get tired of the server, everyone will have alot of high lvl chars and other raid or not raid , but the server have the risk to be stagnant . as it happeend to eqmac.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Metallikus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so what he's saying here is that tier 2 guilds should not be excluded from participation in VP and therefore some sort of lockout or rotation system should take place there as well.

Don't twist my words for your own agenda.