Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Zeds [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks. I'm curious, without searching for more information, is it safe to say that the pathing in VP causes too many issues with "accidental" training in its own right, which in turn would cause a plethora of additional petitions to go along with the flood of petitions from making training in the zone against the rules? Or rather, the amount of extra work required for upholding a rule change like this would cause too much strain on the current GM population, and outweighs the benefit?

Sirken commented stating that pathing is still very poor and doesn't want to deal with the petitions that would most definitely stem from it.

[Zeds]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sirken commented stating that pathing is still very poor and doesn't want to deal with the petitions that would most definitely stem from it.

ok perfect. Now regardless of whether or not we can get the change to happen (which we know is not for the players to decide), what is position on changing the training rule and why? Beneficial? Detrimental? No opinion?

[Tiddlywinks]

How is that trolling? I'm almost through bothering to reply to you, you clearly have nothing to offer to further this discussions aside from sticking your head in the mud and proclaiming at the top of your lungs "It is the way it is because people made it that way for a specific reason and therefore it is not worth whining about or discussing ways that it can be changed".

Then, when someone says something logical you claim it's trolling.

I think you're the one that needs to go home, and leave the people trying to be constructive alone. Stifling discussions you don't agree with is not productive.

[Strifer]

Might as well call VP Shining Time Station because from what I've gathered this is what it looks like when mobs are up;

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[Morgander]

Here's another idea: Can you beat your best record?

What if we took the above idea, but your guild happens to kill Trak in 12 minutes (say this is the server-best)? Maybe they get double loot once per month from the GM's as a bonus.

The incentive is, shit, you get 2x the Trak loot on one kill that month. It's incentive to not FIGHT with anybody other than yourselves.

Which is where true competition lies. Olympians aren't better than everyone else because they look to everyone else then train. They're better because they look to themselves then train.

You find your time, then you beat it. You find out your weaknesses, then you make them strengths. You fight against the clock, your own clock.

That's what makes a champion. Fighting the competition for the sake of thinking you're the best is meaningless. You're the best when you're the best with yourself.

Becoming a better person is a daily struggle, and worth every second in every way.

[Kika Maslyaka]

in first 5 years of EQ before first true instancing, no one ever solved the raid problem GLOBALLY (the fact that your little server had rotations, doesn't mean that every server did).
Pre-PoP era EQ simply has too few raid targets to satisfy everyone (and even post that we had to fight for every decent drop with like 5-10 other guilds).
Specially on a Emu server that collected hardcore raiders from all over EQ.

Add more raid targets or stop whining.

[Lu|z Sect]

Good reasons to consider rolling on teams PVP in this thread.

[mtb tripper]

come to red where pvp is a one guild choice

[Godefroi]

Honestly all those propositions are going to be failures.

1) the current state of the raiding scene is what it is. I'm not a fan of TMO but...they put efforts to get what they want. Sometimes FE get their share of it too, because they do work. of course the size of the guilds isn't classic, but that's a direct consequence of the time line that is anything but classic. That's the double edge of a free project.

2) Rotations happened on live, but they were agreements between guilds iirc (afaik). Rotation happened in VP and was broken by IB due to Amelinda being a cunt. Sad story, maybe if there hadn't been a corrupt GM things would have remained on rotation. Who knows, that's the way it happened. TMO showed more consistency and bigger numbers, they won VP over. When FE tried to enter VP we did good, but TMO had more numbers, TMO won over VP again. You can say they "put more work" , or were more "determined". It's not really the case. It's all about numbers, and about tracking relentlessly, batphoning quickly and recruiting fresh blood constantly (which when you have total control on the high end loot is not hard).

All in all, on P99 it's all about how many no lives do you have to throw in the mix. How many people are ready to sacrifice their evenings , morning, nights, tracking and poopsocking. It's dumb, but it's the way it is.

Somehow some players still show off their tracking records, when it truly is sad. But those people are rewarded the most on P99.

It's not gonna change, so I suggest you get over it and have fun what every other way you can, because otherwise the raiding scene will remain a big source of frustation (anyways, it's been 3 years of kunark god damn it!). Rogean is busy playing the jedi, Sirken smokes pot and answers a few petitions here and there. Nilbog has a good soul, but you guys gotta realize he's doing with a few persons, without getting paid, what Verant had a team of 40+ to do.

The release of Velious is also somehow touchy, due to the headache it will induce for the Staff in terms or CSR. And from the interactions they lately have with players, you can tell they really don't want to deal with that.

The only thing that was mentioned by the staff and that will change is pathing in VP as Sirken acknowledged it required patching to be decent, in order for the zone to become non trainable.

I personally believe this would be good, as having VP non trainable would allow other guilds to get in, remotivate them to compete for trakanon and spread the app/new player flow amongst other guilds. Of course TMO won't like this because it would end their hegemony, but why would they care? Oh yeah soz, that #7 alt still need that eye of xygoz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe at this point raiding kunark will be so insignificant and TMO so geared, that they (might) agree to play nice in VP and actually gently compete. Who knows, maybe weed and adderal makes people gentle over time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[xarzzardorn]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're reading this, my guess is that the title of this thread had captured your attention.

Now I've played on P1999 for several years now, on multiple characters in multiple guilds. Each one has been a raiding guild. I've dabbled with guilds such as Dark Ascension and The Mystical Order, just to name a few, and every guild I've been apart of has been first and foremost, a raiding guild.

Through these experiences I've come to notice that the way you're forced to go about raiding on P1999, well, it just isn't very much fun.

It's not very much fun because there's such thing here as fair competition. Imagine if you would, a game of chess where black has the official starting pieces: 1 king, 1 queen, 2 rooks, 2 bishops, 2 knights, and 8 pawns.

Now imagine you're black, and you're playing the game against white, who's starting pieces are: 1 king, 7 queens, and 8 pawns.

Just doesn't sound like equality.

Sure, if you've two basketball teams on the court, one's bound to have superior players, better strategies, harder training regiments, etc., but they're both going to sport 5 players, and each side of the court's got the same measurements, and both teams still abide by all the same rules and undergo the same penalties.

What I'm getting at here is to reinforce the idea that this whole "competitive" aspect of P1999 raiding is an illusion. From my experience, there seems to be a clear outcry to continue to focus on this same-old competitive aspect of raiding from the more efficient raid guilds. And why not? This is of course directly in their best interests. Why share when you can take more than the other guy?

There seems to be a second group of raiders who feel so vehemently toward a given guild(s), that the mere idea of not having the opportunity to take something from these most hated groups, simply boils them up from the very soul outward.

And that's about it. You've got the group who wants nothing to change because they're already getting theirs, and you have the group who may or may not be getting much, but what they're getting keeps them in favor of this same competitive system because when they do get some, they relish in the idea of imaginary bragging rights against the group(s) they hate so avidly.

If you don't believe me you can just run a quick scan across the forums at the myriad of flames from guild to guild. You've got people from TMO blatantly bashing other guilds, calling them names, ridiculing them, and frankly, being very unsportsmanlike for a very competitive, sport-like endeavor. It's not TMO I'm talking about though, nor are they the focus nor major culprit of this topic. It's all the guilds. You've got guilds hating one another, telling lies about each others members, blowing up in public channels, across voice software, all over the forums... The list continues.

So what's the damned point? Well, the point is, why are we still accepting this archaic outlook on this server? How is it fun to log out next to a raid target, leave your guilds common voice-chat program open, awaiting the call, only to log on, play the game for a grand total of maybe 5-15 minutes, then move your character(s) to another target or targets, then rinse and repeat the process?

Whatever happened to actually logging in and playing the game? When did Everquest raiding mean you've got to have multiple max level characters just to stay logged in?

It's not just about who gets the most or who gets the least. It's a culmination of principles and what's most positive for the community.

I for one would implore the server administrators to take another look at the state of affairs on this server regarding raiding. We can do better than this. We can do better than forcing the staff to come up with a slew of seriously ridiculous, arbitrary rulesets to safeguard an illusionary form of competition between a select few guilds and a large minority of the playerbase.

Everquest wasn't like this. Not on any server I'd played on, nor the server in which I was a guide.

I for one hear more disdain, irritation, and sheer flagrant hatred come from the current system than I do positives on how things are running.

Do we want better? Do the players on this server deserve better? Can't we do better than this?

I think we can.

tldr shut up you moran