Players will always compete for raid mobs; the point of contention is the rules

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by aowen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The original post points out issues that do cause problems for the majority of players, and the arguments supporting the current status-quo are absurd.

Alright you've sucked me into one more post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Damn forumquest!

What's funny is I made a post describing precisely how the whole 'you don't want to compete' type thinking is dumb, and then a bunch of people responded with precisely that.

Originally Posted by skipdog

Motivation to have highly sought after and hard to get gear keeps many of us playing.

We have 11 guilds on the Sky Rotation; at two tokens each thats 22 raid mobs a week vs 19 currently (17 if you don't count Maestro and Dracoliche) which equates to a 15% increase in raid mobs. It's not like the server would be flooded with bone-clasped girdles. And the number of tokens per guild could always be adjusted down if a lot of the guilds broke up into smaller ones to get more tokens as I expect would happen. Again, my point is that a token system is just as competitive, just not as retarded.

Originally Posted by Skipdog

Trying to smear 'being organized, being dedicated and being capable of fast mobilization' as not being competition just seems really silly

This is precisely the kind of straw man that I am raging about in the original post. Organization and mobilization are about 10% of what it takes to get raid mobs on P1999, with "dedication" being another one of those idiotic code words for 'I sat at my computer hitting track for 40 hours this week'

Originally Posted by Vianna

WE GOT INNORUUK

See if I was a member of Forceful Entry and got up to kill some random pixels at 5AM, I would be pretty unhappy even if we actually got said pixels. Of course I would be really unhappy if I was Sericx. But again, I'm not anti-TMO and never have been. TMO is simply a guild that is designed to beat the current system. Their point that that other guilds can be designed to beat this system is reasonable.

Again, the current raid system is not unfair, just stupid. And with that I'm out for good!

P.S. Sericx, if I were you I'd stop arguing with Kenzar.

[aowen]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The main use of the funds they get from trakanon breastplates and other gear is to buy other accounts to sit on spawn targets. These accounts are shared to people with the most playtime. So you have 20-30ish people with access to 20 accounts sitting on every target not in VP. So while most guilds would have to mobilize to a place. They can log in account and be fighting the boss 8-10 seconds after logging in. Sometimes they will tank stall a fight with Soulfire's *instant click cheal with 5 charges and easy to get*, to established something called FTE(First to engage). So they can have 2-3 people fight a raid mob almost indefinitely until forces log in.

It is pretty insurmountable unless you ask your entire guild to set their primary level 60 raider on a spawn point and log on 3-5 seconds after a batphone(a text message/twitter blast) is called by the tracker(the guy who gets paid DKP to sit and look at their screen until the mob pops).

Hope that explains to you what goes on at a high level raiding situation.

So that's a good synopsis of what goes on now. I have respect for those that are willing to do this, and I appreciate this level of competition, but I also find it highly tedious and simply not fun. I think many of us would like to see the system evolve into something that is not only more fun, but more reasonable and inclusive.

Tokens could be a consideration as many have proposed. An occasional pop of everything is also a thought. A combination of tokens for zones and variance may prove to be most fair, but others may think of something better. Let's remember that no change has to be permanent, and that implementing and testing new rules for raiding could be a benefit not only to those that are currently being disallowed access to end-game content, but those already sitting on top too.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alright you've sucked me into one more post [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Damn forumquest!

What's funny is I made a post describing precisely how the whole 'you don't want to compete' type thinking is dumb, and then a bunch of people responded with precisely that.



We have 11 guilds on the Sky Rotation; at two tokens each thats 22 raid mobs a week vs 19 currently (17 if you don't count Maestro and Dracoliche) which equates to a 15% increase in raid mobs. It's not like the server would be flooded with bone-clasped girdles. And the number of tokens per guild could always be adjusted down if a lot of the guilds broke up into smaller ones to get more tokens as I expect would happen. Again, my point is that a token system is just as competitive, just not as retarded.



This is precisely the kind of straw man that I am raging about in the original post. Organization and mobilization are about 10% of what it takes to get raid mobs on P1999, with "dedication" being another one of those idiotic code words for 'I sat at my computer hitting track for 40 hours this week'



See if I was a member of Forceful Entry and got up to kill some random pixels at 5AM, I would be pretty unhappy even if we actually got said pixels. Of course I would be really unhappy if I was Sericx. But again, I'm not anti-TMO and never have been. TMO is simply a guild that is designed to beat the current system. Their point that that other guilds can be designed to beat this system is reasonable.

Again, the current raid system is not unfair, just stupid. And with that I'm out for good!

P.S. Sericx, if I were you I'd stop arguing with Kenzar.

Is this the same Sakuragi who was allowed to tag along with TMO-led VP raids to get "grats rot loot?" If so, are we to believe that all this time, while you were collecting rot loot with TMO, you believed that a more equitable, "token system" would be a more egalitarian means of acquiring loot? What exactly does that make you?

No, I don't read your entire post.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is this the same Sakuragi who was allowed to tag along with TMO-led VP raids to get "grats rot loot?" If so, are we to believe that all this time, while you were collecting rot loot with TMO, you believed that a more equitable, "token system" would be a more egalitarian means of acquiring loot? What exactly does that make you?

No, I don't read your entire post.

How is it hypocritical to acknowledge and operate within the reality of the situation while simultaneously believing that it can be improved?

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is it hypocritical to acknowledge and operate within the reality of the situation while simultaneously believing that it can be improved?

Well said.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is it hypocritical to acknowledge and operate within the reality of the situation while simultaneously believing that it can be improved?

I like you, Xasten. But if you can't see the hypocrisy in someone being a part of some system--actively--while believing that it is not in the best interests of the server and, furthermore, while casting stones at TMO for using said system to provide him a means to "buy" his gear, then I don't know what to tell you.

It's like the woman who knows that adultery is wrong and who tells her husband he shouldn't be cheating on her, all the while cheating on him herself.

Sakuragi believes (and I daresay did believe all the while) that the current system of acquiring loot is a plague to the server; yet not only scapegoats TMO after the fact (for allowing him to get loot through a non-token based system and supposedly perpetuating said system), but actively acquired loot through a perceived, non-equitable means of acquisition.

Pretty standard forms of hypocrisy in my mind.

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is this the same Sakuragi who was allowed to tag along with TMO-led VP raids to get "grats rot loot?" If so, are we to believe that all this time, while you were collecting rot loot with TMO, you believed that a more equitable, "token system" would be a more egalitarian means of acquiring loot? What exactly does that make you?

No, I don't read your entire post.

This is the same Sakuragi. Just because he can afford to buy VP rots from TMO doesn't mean he is not interested in a situation that reforms raid rules on the server. Buying gear from TMO and desiring for more people to be able to compete on the server with different rules are not mutually exclusive. In fact, liking or hating/working with or working against TMO and desiring no trains or desiring trains are all possible views/actions that are not mutually exclusive.

Why wouldn't Loraen buy VP rots if he can afford them? The A-Team probably wouldn't even have enough people to do VP even uncontested.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is this the same Sakuragi who was allowed to tag along with TMO-led VP raids to get "grats rot loot?" If so, are we to believe that all this time, while you were collecting rot loot with TMO, you believed that a more equitable, "token system" would be a more egalitarian means of acquiring loot? What exactly does that make you?

No, I don't read your entire post.

So you proudly flaunt the fact that you did not, in fact, read anything I wrote while at the same time claiming you understand what I am thinking. If you had read even the title of this thread you would know that I am not concerned about a 'fair' distribution of raid loot as long as the METHOD of the COMPETITION is ENJOYABLE.

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you proudly flaunt the fact that you did not, in fact, read anything I wrote while at the same time claiming you understand what I am thinking. If you had read even the title of this thread you would know that I am not concerned about a 'fair' distribution of raid loot as long as the METHOD of the COMPETITION is ENJOYABLE.

I enjoy it. Why don't you? After all, you have freebie (as in not earned) loots from end game.

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would be hypocritical if he were to have said, "I will never raid in a system like this" and then raid within that system.

No. That makes him a liar.

[zanderklocke]

So if you had to choose between variance and all the mobs on the server popping at once, which would you choose?

I think the second choice would get my adrenaline pumping and be more fun, but that's just me.