NY GRAND JURY VOTES TO INDICT TRUMP

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What are you talking about? No red state has outlawed abortion. They've put restrictions on it, typically around 12 weeks (end of first trimester). That's hardly a "clump of cells".

Treating ectopic pregnancies is not an abortion, stop muddying the waters. I know you're not that dumb.

To be fair, the problem is that in many cases the restrictions are purposefully timed to make it unlikely that the woman even knows she's pregnant. I think it's something like 10-15 states (somewhere in that range) have abortion bans past 6 weeks. You might as well just fully ban abortion at that point...you're not really arguing in good faith here.

[Origen]

Out of all the things I will engage a conservative on, knowing how women work isn't one of them

Like getting sex advice from a virgin

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again they never explain why it's okay to kill babies, it's always some whining about religious people and hypocrisy.

I'm an atheist and I find it pretty wrong to kill a totally healthy baby and throw it in the garbage.

You can make all the exceptions you want for rape, incest, threat to the life of the mother, and they still refuse to budge on the other 99% of abortions that are totally elective. Those babies just need to die, for equality or something.

Ironically everyone is so focused on abortion, but once the baby is born no one seems to want to fund necessary reforms that would actually help the child's life.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Homesteaded [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe because I have experienced it. The teachings match what I’ve witnessed working in the real world. Non-Christians love to believe only low IQ people could possibly believe.

Slow down Speedy McSpeedface!

"I believe because I have experienced it."

What? What did you experience? An experience is some kind of reportable event, like say I describe my "experience of being thirsty."

You say you believe because you experience it. Naturally you have to say this, because observe, experience always has some kind of object.

Proof. Go up to someone on the street. Say, "I'm having an experience!" If you are still gtg, they will ask "An experience of what?" If you say, "What do you mean? Just experience, experience doesn't have to be about anything," you will get the cold shoulder.

So, what is it?

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ironically everyone is so focused on abortion, but once the baby is born no one seems to want to fund necessary reforms that would actually help the child's life.

Yes we've all heard that stupid george carlin routine. Being alive and struggling is still better than being killed without any say in the matter. Lots of people born into terrible circumstances end up doing amazing things in the world. And again, tons of people want to adopt kids. If you don't wanna take care of it, fine, give it to somebody who does instead of killing it. Maybe he or she will invent the cure for cancer some day, who knows?

And how do you know abortion restrictions are "purposely timed" so that women don't know they're pregnant? It could be the case (and is) that they're giving you a window in which to just take a god damn pregnancy test and you can still kill your baby, as long as it's before 12 weeks or whatever the particular window is. I haven't heard of any 6 week abortion bans btw.

And yes I am arguing in good faith. How am I not? Please tell me the "good faith" argument against abortion so I understand.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I shall help you out. Human consciousness, St. Augustine argued, is in the image of God. Therefore it has a three-fold structure.

Experience (or consciousness) exists within and part of a creation, whose object is ultimately the adoration of God. The adoration can occur through any of the senses, for example, as we enjoy the creation.

The self and its capacity to experience and be with the creation is the Father-Son part of the triad. "The self is made flesh and becomes flesh and is flesh." And the world crucifies you for it.

There remains the third "person" of the human being. Self, Other, and Time. We think of the world, of ourselves, of God, through the lag and memories of a time-based creation. Spirit-like, we are always haunted by time.

Now, that's Augustine. De Trinitate is the name of the book. I've read it.

And I remember it.

I am haunted by waters.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I mean, should I be the God guy? I can do lots of diff moves. You want standard Anglicized American protestantism, hell, I can do that without even lookin' up the verse!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You want serious Catholic? Life is a seamless garment, my friends.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

No. No, I think...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeZlih4DDNg

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes we've all heard that stupid george carlin routine. Being alive and struggling is still better than being killed without any say in the matter. Lots of people born into terrible circumstances end up doing amazing things in the world. And again, tons of people want to adopt kids. If you don't wanna take care of it, fine, give it to somebody who does instead of killing it. Maybe he or she will invent the cure for cancer some day, who knows?

And how do you know abortion restrictions are "purposely timed" so that women don't know they're pregnant? It could be the case (and is) that they're giving you a window in which to just take a god damn pregnancy test and you can still kill your baby, as long as it's before 12 weeks or whatever the particular window is. I haven't heard of any 6 week abortion bans btw.

And yes I am arguing in good faith. How am I not? Please tell me the "good faith" argument against abortion so I understand.

It's not a stupid argument though. If we're so concerned about the well being of an unborn child that we want to ban abortion, then we should follow through with appropriate social measures/funding to ensure that child can have the best life it possibly can. It rings false and disingenuous when we want to wash our hands of any responsibility to help the children once they're actually born, and it basically just makes the whole sanctity of life argument not a good faith argument.

As for the 6 week bills, they were drafted that way because it would be much easier to challenge an outright 100% ban on abortion in the courts. Things like irregular periods, etc. can make someone totally unaware they are pregnant at 6 weeks and therefore in practice you essentially have an outright ban on abortion without actually having to legislate a complete ban. I will give them credit, it's definitely a smart legal strategy. I'm also not sure how you haven't heard of them...like nearly a third of the states in the US have enacted them over the past few years.

What really gets me is the people who also want to ban any sort of contraceptives or birth control...like okay let's put out there that there's a hypothetical ban on abortion because all the people like you are like "well, don't fuck around and get pregnant accidentally and then want to kill your baby"....but then those same people also want to make it impossible to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. The illogic.