Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Kinda weird he keeps bringing up Ixiblat. It's almost like he's specifically mentioning niche scenarios where a shaman is more useful? I wonder why he'd be doing that?


P.S. Still lookin out for all those posts from people that want root rotted adds in their xp group camp. I'm sure we'll see a flood of posts any second now.

Oh that's easy. A group of four is leveling 1-60 really fast, with or without a Mage. The question is simply do you prefer a Mage for a slightly faster leveling experience when it is already fast, or a Shaman for the ability to do high end camps at 60?

OP didn't say he was just going to level to 60 and stop, so we must also include farming level 60 content. A Shaman is the clear winner when considering both the leveling process and level 60 farming process. The Mage simply doesn't offer enough in the end game to justify their better DPS in the early game.

Again, you and the other trolls have ruined your shot at having other people post at this point. They don't want to be insulted/memed at just because they disagree with you lol.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh that's easy. A group of four is leveling 1-60 really fast, with or without a Mage. The question is simply do you prefer a Mage for a slightly faster leveling experience when it is already fast, or a Shaman for the ability to do high end camps at 60?

OP didn't say he was just going to level to 60 and stop, so we must also including farming level 60 content. A Shaman is the clear choice when considering both the leveling and farming process. The Mage simply doesn't offer enough in the end game to justify their better DPS in the early game.

Ahh yes cause there are sooooooooo many camps that enc/enc/mag/clr couldn't easily do that enc/enc/shm/clr could do no problem. You're totally right what was I thinking? There's Ixiblat Fer and uhh... Ixiblat Fer and Fungi King? Oh wait no they could do fungi king np. Well there's Ixiblat Fer! I'm actually not even sure what the best charm available in BW is. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they could do it just fine without a shaman but for the sake of argument I'll let you have this one. Are we now suggesting shaman is the right choice to make 1 or 2 niche mobs/camps easier at lvl 60? Rather than the CLEARLY better option for lvling 1-60 and at MOST other camps in the game? You know the class that does 50% more dps than shamans by your own data? That's assuming they don't have an epic in which case would be more than 50% increase over mediocre shaman dps?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahh yes cause there are sooooooooo many camps that enc/enc/mag/clr couldn't easily do that enc/enc/shm/clr could do no problem. You're totally right what was I thinking? There's Ixiblat Fer and uhh... Ixiblat Fer and Fungi King? Oh wait no they could do fungi king np. Well there's Ixiblat Fer! I'm actually not even sure what the best charm available in BW is. It honestly wouldn't surprise me if they could do it just fine without a shaman but for the sake of argument I'll let you have this one.

Are we now suggesting shaman is the right choice to make 1 or 2 niche mobs/camps easier at lvl 60? Rather than the CLEARLY better option for lvling 1-60 and at MOST other camps in the game? You know the class that does 50% more dps than shamans by your own data? That's assuming they don't have an epic in which case would be more than 50% increase over mediocre shaman dps?

Again, you are just ignoring other aspects of the game. A Shaman decreases your groups chances of wiping throughout the 1-60 process and at high level camps. They also save your group mana since they can handle things like slowing and healing too. You are only focusing on DPS, because that is the only argument you can make for Mage vs. Shaman.

If you are going to assume perfect play (no group wipes), Mage still loses. Just roll four Enchanters since your group is the best of the best. It doesn't need any support. You can have pocket clerics for the occasional CHing pets or resing.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, you are just ignoring other aspects of the game. A Shaman decreases your groups chances of wiping throughout the 1-60 process and at high level camps. They also save your group mana since they can handle things like slowing and healing too. You are only focusing on DPS, because that is the only argument you can make for Mage vs. Shaman.

If you are going to assume perfect play (no group wipes), Mage still loses. Just roll four Enchanters since your group is the best of the best. It doesn't need any support. You can have pocket clerics for the occasional CHing pets or resing.

Have you ever been in a group with 2 enchanters and a cleric? Because I have and from the way you talk I'm going to assume you never have and have no idea how powerful it is and how little danger is involved if everyone is at least moderately good at the game. Judging by your signature I'm going to assume the only classes you have any real experience with are Shaman and SK. So it makes sense you wouldn't understand this. I've been in similar groups as the enchanter AND as the cleric. I know fairly well how the group functions and what it's capable of. Shaman brings next to nothing to the table that actually matters besides malo and mediocre added damage. You know who else brings malo (negligible difference from shaman malo)? Mage. Know who also does 50% (or more) more damage than shaman? Mage. Know who doesn't need to increase the risk and cause chaos to do respectable damage by root rotting adds all over? Mage.

2 encs and a cleric do not need:
Your healing
Your slows
Your roots
Your dots (mobs die too fast)
Your tanking
Your pet

Mobs generally die too fast and charm pets are too tanky to even worry about slowing but if you do need slow enc slow is only 5% less than yours. Your slow doesn't matter in the least. Your malo is slightly better than mage but again a negligible amount. I've held charm pets with both mage and shaman malo for extended periods and it's literally impossible to tell the difference. Mage doing significantly more DPS vastly outweighs it. All your other "utility" is worthless in this group. You keep droning on and on about utility and "safety". This group is not in any danger at just about any camp in the game. They don't need more safety. Stop grasping at straws. Nobody is calling shaman a bad class. It's one of the strongest classes in the game in many respects. This particular situation? Shaman is not that great and certainly not needed or better than several alternatives. As someone else already pointed out you could make a strong case for necro as a better option than shaman as well.


P.S. Still lookin out for all those posts from people that want root rotted adds in their xp group camp. I'm sure we'll see a flood of posts any second now.

[Dogz_SS]

You ever see what 6 magicians can do? 🤣

[cd288]

Lmao this guy is STILL here writing novels days later. I wonder if DSM will hit a thousand posts in this thread

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have been in group with two Enchanters. You are correct the DPS is already good enough. This is why Mage is irrelevant. You have enough DPS, so you want a class that can open up more camp options, and reduce problems that occur due to RNG. Shamans are much better at this than Mages.

[PlsNoBan]

Enc/Enc/Clr isn't in danger and doesn't need shaman safety. You bring nothing but a slightly better malo and mediocre damage. Please get off the copium.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Enc/Enc/Clr isn't in danger and doesn't need shaman safety. You bring nothing but a slightly better malo and mediocre damage. Please get off the copium.

You already admitted two enchanters and a cleric don't need more DPS lol. So you want a class that can open up more camps and further reduce RNG problems. Thats a Shaman. Thank you for agreeing with me.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You already admitted two enchanters and a cleric don't need more DPS lol. So you want a class that can open up more camps and further reduce RNG problems. Thats a Shaman. Thank you for agreeing with me.