Rules for spawned epic mobs

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Rusl [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So since phinny is 1 groupable it's not a raid mob? What about other targets like say Draco, Maestro, Naggy, Vox. All of those can be killed by 1 group hell I bet you could get Faydedar with 1 group even Xygoz in VP barely takes more than 1 group to kill. So does that mean I can camp them and they are no longer under the raid rules? Where do you draw the line

It's not what can be, it's what is and has been. Stop twisting shit. It's been proven time and time again. It's been called a camp, time and time again. The majority of the people that have done phinny pre epics have considered it a camp and respected camp calls by a single group time and time again.

Show me people single grouping draco and calling it a camp and repeatedly taking it out. Show me the countless Maestro groups that have been formed to sock Maestro and succeeded. Naggy? Vox? Fay?

Has anyone on this server seen any raid target listed, other than Phinny, constantly taken out over the past year by 6 or less people? I bet you can't name a single one other than him.

It's been called a camp prior to epics, it's been handled as a camp prior to epics, it's been grouped as a camp prior to epics. The only reason you are all in an uproar about it now is that a few mages with some friends might claim it and you can't force them out with sheer numbers.

[Trystych]

We have done maestro as a duo and trio several times (including the heroic mode version), if those players were interested in clearing maestro room and waiting for him they certainly could camp it with a small force. With those kind of numbers though it is not a guaranteed victory and another grouping would probably benefit from waiting around to see what happens.

I too find it extremely unlikely a single group of players will ever be bored enough to keep a portion of fear clear on repop to enable them to camp draco as an xp mob, he can be killed with 1 group though so it would in theory be possible.

The idea of dragons being 1 groupable is not viable IMO. While nagafen and vox certainly would be by lvl 60's that is no longer possible. The regen alone on the kunark targets mentioned would prohibit a single group from success.

[Nirgon]

Apparently using a certain tactic, killing Naggy or Vox with a group and a half of lvls 40-50 with almost no resist gear is very possible. We're discussing it on the other side of the tracks right now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

[Ravager]

I'm relatively new to the raid scene, and I wasn't there for the Phinny thing, but this rules stuff is interesting to me and I'd just like to comment that someone as new to raiding as me (and I'm certain I'm not the only one with new players reaching raid levels all the time) will have no idea what all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules are.

In my opinion a rule is something that's written, by the staff and posted publicly for everyone to see. Regardless of how old the rule is, or when it was written, whatever is posted as rules is all a guy like me is going to have to go by. How am I supposed to sift through thousands of posts to find all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and how am I supposed to know which ones are the ones to follow since there seems to be five sides to every story? Even if I knew every unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and played by them, I can't be certain that if I do have a dispute that needs GM intervention that I'll be found in the right because they don't always mesh with the actual written rules.

Further, it seems that the only rules that matter to Rogean are the written rules, since whenever questions come up, he's apt to quote the written rule, regardless of how old it is. So I will assume that whatever is written is the rule.

I am also of the opinion that no matter what the posted rules are, whatever a GM says goes. We're playing on their server. They can run it as they see fit. They'll make mistakes and do things that contradict rules, but they are their rules to contradict. And by the nature of the game, not everyone is going to like the outcome of their decisions, but big deal. They are generously donating their time to this community and doing the best they can with what they have to work with, be it resources, information or support. They can only handle the disputes on a case-by-case basis and only the GMs know what they know and I do believe they try to make the best decisions they can based on what they know about each dispute.

I don't have all the facts about all the major disputes and unanswered petitions either, but the general vibe I'm getting is that the players are treating the GMs like garbage, so it should be no surprise that petitions get left unanswered and disputes unsettled. I don't consider this favoritism to one group or another, just a general "I give up, solve your own problems" position they're taking. And if half of what I heard about how the players treat the GMs is true, I really can't say that I blame them.

In the end, as long as this server is up, there will always be another Phinny, Ragefire, Draco, etc... if you don't have the time to wait for the next pop and try again, you're probably playing the wrong game.

[Slippery]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm relatively new to the raid scene, and I wasn't there for the Phinny thing, but this rules stuff is interesting to me and I'd just like to comment that someone as new to raiding as me (and I'm certain I'm not the only one with new players reaching raid levels all the time) will have no idea what all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules are.

In my opinion a rule is something that's written, by the staff and posted publicly for everyone to see. Regardless of how old the rule is, or when it was written, whatever is posted as rules is all a guy like me is going to have to go by. How am I supposed to sift through thousands of posts to find all of these unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and how am I supposed to know which ones are the ones to follow since there seems to be five sides to every story? Even if I knew every unwritten/assumed/player agreed rules and played by them, I can't be certain that if I do have a dispute that needs GM intervention that I'll be found in the right because they don't always mesh with the actual written rules.

Further, it seems that the only rules that matter to Rogean are the written rules, since whenever questions come up, he's apt to quote the written rule, regardless of how old it is. So I will assume that whatever is written is the rule.

I am also of the opinion that no matter what the posted rules are, whatever a GM says goes. We're playing on their server. They can run it as they see fit. They'll make mistakes and do things that contradict rules, but they are their rules to contradict. And by the nature of the game, not everyone is going to like the outcome of their decisions, but big deal. They are generously donating their time to this community and doing the best they can with what they have to work with, be it resources, information or support. They can only handle the disputes on a case-by-case basis and only the GMs know what they know and I do believe they try to make the best decisions they can based on what they know about each dispute.

I don't have all the facts about all the major disputes and unanswered petitions either, but the general vibe I'm getting is that the players are treating the GMs like garbage, so it should be no surprise that petitions get left unanswered and disputes unsettled. I don't consider this favoritism to one group or another, just a general "I give up, solve your own problems" position they're taking. And if half of what I heard about how the players treat the GMs is true, I really can't say that I blame them.

In the end, as long as this server is up, there will always be another Phinny, Ragefire, Draco, etc... if you don't have the time to wait for the next pop and try again, you're probably playing the wrong game.

Pretty solid standpoint, you hit the nail on the head there pal.

vd/ib too busy sending hate tells and cave dwelling to give a gm reason to care. Take it to rnf, not to amelinda.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apparently using a certain tactic, killing Naggy or Vox with a group and a half of lvls 40-50 with almost no resist gear is very possible. We're discussing it on the other side of the tracks right now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

Yeah, that thread seems pretty popular.

[booter]

Yeah, because your posts have always been conducive to an atmosphere of cooperation.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have to agree with Ravager - we have no choice but to go by the rules that are actually written on these boards. Maybe they could use some expanding, like simply designating which targets can be considered "raid" and which would fall under "group" rules. I'm sure the raiding guilds could all send a recommended list to Nilbog/Rogean/Amelinda and they could finalize it.

The problems occur when rulings are inconsistent or altogether absent.

[Pomaikai]

This is why SoE moved Rage to SF. Even SoE got fed up with the all crap associated with this encounter in SolB. This is one time I'd love to see us stray from "classic" for sure.

[Orruar]

Here's an idea: Use common sense and don't be a douchebag. If people could do these two things, there would be no raid drama, and you wouldn't have to sift through pages and pages of rules to try and figure out how to deal with each and every situation. And I'm convinced that by default, people will do these two simple things. However, it seems like the top guilds here are populated with people who crave drama because their lives are so fucking boring, and so they intentionally ignore their common sense and anti-douchebag instincts.

[EverquestJunkie]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, it seems like the top guilds here are populated with people who crave drama because their lives are so fucking boring, and so they intentionally ignore their common sense and anti-douchebag instincts.

+1