Resists and Melee

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually got it backwards, it was changed to 95% resist cap during GoD and was 98% before that:

- Spells now have a minimum chance of landing of 5%, up from 2%.

http://www.necrotalk.com/showthread.php?t=2295

Notice the 50% extended melee range in that patch, boys?

5% minimum does not equal 95% cap, btw....false math. Like the missing dollar riddle. And ya, they actually increased the chances to land with that change.

[lethdar]

Dunno what a 50% increased melee range from 2004 has to do with anything.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by tmoneynegro

Your blue server commentary isn't relative to a PvP server. Verant knew that letting crowd control spells land completely destroyed many classes like rogue/monk/war so they made it extremely easy to become 95% immune to them.

You never actually supported this; you need to explain why having 120 MR should give you exactly the same benefit as having 300 MR. That's never how it worked (can you find even one source that supports what you say?). You also never showed why your ridiculous graph is a classically accurate plot of what resists were like (for CC spells or otherwise). No one is saying root just land often at 120 MR, we're just saying you're a complete imbecile if you think that graph represents either how resists were or should be.

[tmoneynegro]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You never actually supported this; you need to explain why having 120 MR should give you exactly the same benefit as having 300 MR.

You're a blue server player and trying to claim you're more knowledgeable on a subject than someone who played a pure melee class from day 1 on Sullon Zek? You have 0 credibility in this thread.

Lethdar even posted an old Safehouse link where some guy parsed crowd control resists during Luclin and it was 87% resist rate with 150MR. The parse was just after a patch that made it easier for spells to land so the resist rate was even higher before that:

"150 MR gets you about 87% resistance to snares according to my last batch of tests."

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/s...ead.php?t=7879


I'm 100% positive the resist rate for crowd control was over 90% with 120MR during Velious and prior expansions. My graph is accurate within a 5% margin of error or so.

Link to graph: http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5918/linear1.jpg

Here's some more people who actually played a PvP server:


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[Humerox]

Originally Posted by lethdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dunno what a 50% increased melee range from 2004 has to do with anything.

They finally got around to freaking fixing the hitbox issues, lol. Took 'em that long to do it.

[Bockscar]

100-120ish MR made you nearly immune to magic-based non-nuke spells that didn't have negative resist modifiers, including anything from snares and roots to mez and stuns. It never made you completely immune, but it was close enough that you didn't have to worry about getting CCed with any regularity if you had the proper resists, although you might still get tashed/maloed and those spells could land if you didn't have a high enough MR to sit at 100+ after debuffs. Anyone who played EQ back then doesn't need a graph, this was an everyday fact of life.

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you need to explain why having 120 MR should give you exactly the same benefit as having 300 MR.

Why it should isn't the arguement. That's just the way it was. If you played classic live PVP (up to PoP even) you would know that this was the way it was. This is a classic server. That's the way it was.

[Bockscar]

Having extra high MR would still help against magic-based nukes. Nukes are harder to fully resist than binary effects like snare and stun.

[Humerox]

Personally I'm expecting this server to be better than classic. Things like that needed closer attention, but SOE didn't really give a shit about PvP servers....and that was classic.

[Buhbuh]

I'm kind of with two minds on the resist thing. I used to be totally against changing that classic resist system we all remember from live.

There's cons for both.

Everyone is pretty savvy with EQ at this point, so every known piece of MR gear is going to be camped and utilized by nearly every player that can obtain it.

Although there is no boxing (preventing buff bots), most higher up people don't PvP without first being buffed by their pals or whatever. So in a lot of PvP, players are going to be experiencing some players that have upwards of 200MR, (Shield of the Arcane or Magi, GMR) which presents a unique problem.

Some classes really don't have the same options in resist gear holistically. Being a monk, I remember that all too well. Plate and cloth classes definitely have a lot more options than chain and leather. But casters do need to have a chance.

One thing that bothered me with the TZVZ resist system was the superfluity of debuffs to a large extent. That's a con when those spells become inane in PvP. Most Shaman didn't bother using debuffs of any kind, and some Enchanters (although there were fewer) didn't even mem Tash to get roots or mezzes on even some of the best geared players. This was also directly related to the amount of melee damage produced by even the weakest melee classes (hybrids). Debuffs were risky business when even hybrids hit hard and rarely missed.

With the original EQlive resists, debuffs were much more relevant. People took time to actually cast them.

But that's just food for thought. It's a hard issue. There's a delicate balance. I found being rooted with 190MR in Kunark pretty hard to deal with sometimes, personally. There wasn't a whole lot of jousting going on on that server. It was a "battle of the immobilization," so to speak.

It's pretty clear that immobilization spells (if they land consistently) are either a game changer or flat out ensure that you'll die a good amount of the time. And taking into account the way that the game is built with CR's and such, living means much more than anything else. It's not a WoW situation.