Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Frug]

Originally Posted by byzah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eye witness evidence counts as evidence in criminal trials - so here's some more.

It's also shown to be way less reliable than most people give it credit for.

[byzah]

Originally Posted by kul69 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There has already been enough evidence provided to prove you're wrong and that there are core mechanics broken like MR rate, invis, etc.

Wrong about inviz, definitely possible. Wrong about classic viability of Charm - no. I was there. I used it. It worked*.

Note that's not the same thing as saying that the current strategy isn't cheesy or unbalancing and that no action should be taken in the interests of balance [at the expense of authenticity). I don't like it as a tactic either. I don't like teaming with enchanters and I'll never play one so long as this is a thing.

* Unlike Lull line, which really did suck (so badly that I didn't even buy the spells on my cleric all the way to the one they released around the GoD/OoW era which actually functioned)

[Meiva]

It also mentions changing Charm rules in The Hole to Kunark-era. What does that mean?

[byzah]

The patch notes are confusing as I deleted my chanter in 2001 yet I can remember memming inviz to break charm early.

Unreliable witness, obviously [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll get my coat.

[bwe]

Originally Posted by byzah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The patch notes are confusing as I deleted my chanter in 2001 yet I can remember memming inviz to break charm early.

Unreliable witness, obviously [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll get my coat.

Yeah that patch note must be wrong, this mentions invis breaking charm from 2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/Charm$20invis/alt.games.everquest/IcC9ObuzvxM

[byzah]

Originally Posted by bwe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah that patch note must be wrong, this mentions invis breaking charm from 2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/Charm$20invis/alt.games.everquest/IcC9ObuzvxM

Unless they went back and forth on it?

I do have a "proper" memory of sitting down in Unrest and memming Inviz to remove charm there as the team didn't want my pet hanging around after a fight. I was a high elf - so no Hide.

One nerf to necros regarding charm that I recall was that necros would camp a named and charm one mob then set it on the named then FD. They could stay FD (100% safe assuming no AEs in range) and their pet would keep fighting. The nerf was that FD would break charm after X seconds.

[strawman]

Originally Posted by bwe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah that patch note must be wrong, this mentions invis breaking charm from 2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/Charm$20invis/alt.games.everquest/IcC9ObuzvxM

This link didn't work for me but I did go back and start looking at alt.games.everquest.

May 2001:

Greets,
I just hit 12 with one of my many alts, (Enchanter this time) and
picked up Charm as one of my new spells. With mez and mem-blure it
seems like the perfect tool for soloing. Needless to say I haven't had
time to try it out yet. Any suggestions or comments?

Cheers

soloing an enchanter? brave, very brave indeed.
The charm is prety good. Charm a critter, kill another one with it and kill
your weakened one after that. Saves time.

As someone else pointed out, SoW is pretty much a necessity for charm
soloing. Make sure you always keep the mob your pet is fighting
rooted. That way when charm breaks you have only one mob coming at you
instead of two. Stay far enough away that you can charm or mez/charm
again when it breaks.

You usually don't open with charm, mez/tash/charm instead, or just
tash/charm if you're that confident in your channeling skill. Tash
seems to help quite a bit in charm duration.

Charisma helps. I don't think anyone's done any comparitive studies to see
how much it helps, but Verant says it does.

But what helps even more is tash. Tash that mob before you charm it, and
the charm will last for a LONG time.

I haven't had very good luck with using charm to solo. But I find it
works wonderfully in a group where there is someone to cover my back.
If the group pulls a couple mobs and one is a green or blue con caster I
often charm the caster, assist main tank, and /pet attack.
I generally warn the group that I might be casting charm, and try to let
them know which mob is charmed. Otherwise they might waste quite a bit
of effort on it.

I've heard that higher charisma makes charm last longer. Boosted mine a
bit and it seems to help.

Sounds like people were doing nearly the same thing we are now in 2001.

[mycoolrausch]

From Feb 2000:

Kentoo Bryteblade

"steve" <_-srhe...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:ggGn4.20503$MN.87996@news2.jacksonville.net.. .
<SNIP>

> I have many many times
> and EVERYTIME I try to charm a spec, I just hope my sow I just traded a
> clarity for don't run out. Now I have seen level 44+ enchanters that have
> every cha (i.e. cha=200)(ie = twinked out) item in the game (almost) on
the
> character, charm specs, but even then the spec breaks the charm! usually
in
> less time it would take for the spec to kill other specs. SO our charm is
> almost worthless. please prove me wrong
Well I don't know about soloing spec island, but my wife and I can do three
or four using mes and charm...she has no significant problem charming specs
and hasn't since about level 35 (she's 40 now and I'm 37th and a warrior).
She has soloed two specs using one charmed to kill the other, then burning
the former pet. The key is to let the specs fight it out...only casting
enough to let your pet stay ahead in damage, and medding the rest of the
time (and yes same strategy for clopses and HGs). Ensure you let your pet
take allot of damage, go invis to break the charm, then mes and burn.

[bwe]

but not necro fine steel dagger or feign death pet killing for example

[strawman]

Originally Posted by ArunaGreen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're COMPLETELY retarded if you think charm is even remotely balanced. The naggy kill that just happened would literally have been impossible without a hasted charmed pet that BS's for more than double what a max rogue with BiS gear would be capable of. Charm is BY FAR the most broken spell in the entire game and to say it doesn't need to be nerfed is actually moronic.

I'm saying that twenty years pursuing the holy grail of balance has given us World of Warcraft, which may be the most unfun video game ever created. Maybe balance isn't as important as everyone has been saying it is.

Originally Posted by bwe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but not necro fine steel dagger or feign death pet killing for example

What's the proof for these? Is there video or logs or something demonstrating that necros had capabilities they don't have here? It seems like it would be a simple matter to get this fixed, if there's proof beyond "i remember it was like this i swear".