What is the hardest dungeon in the game?

[mickmoranis]

Also consider, the clown show of trying to make it through HS without ever knowing about the key system, traps, re traversal. By the time you've figured out HOW to get through HS, a competing 6 man in SG will have completed all the content.

[Alanus]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also consider, the clown show of trying to make it through HS without ever knowing about the key system, traps, re traversal. By the time you've figured out HOW to get through HS, a competing 6 man in SG will have completed all the content.

There's no way a 6 man group could complete all of the content in SG. Siren temple would cause a lot of problems,

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Alanus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no way a 6 man group could complete all of the content in SG. Siren temple would cause a lot of problems,

Since this is obviously the case, it really calls into question whether SG should be properly considered a dungeon at all. If a zone is designed so that a single level and gear appropriate group cannot complete all of its content, then perhaps it should be more accurately labeled a mini-raid zone or a multi-group dungeon.

This is why I can see where mickmoranis is coming from. SG is definitely harder than HS in the sense that it takes more killing power to be successful there. But that's because it's basically not a true dungeon at all. It's like if you're talking about who the toughest guy in the neighborhood is and someone is like, "Well, Brock Lesnar is a lot tougher." It's like yeah, no shit, but we're talking about guys from the neighborhood, you know?

I would define a true dungeon as meeting these criteria:

1) Indoors
2) Single groupable
3) Content intended to be used for leveling/XPing

Thoughts?

[Alanus]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since this is obviously the case, it really calls into question whether SG should be properly considered a dungeon at all. If a zone is designed so that a single level and gear appropriate group cannot complete all of its content, then perhaps it should be more accurately labeled a mini-raid zone or a multi-group dungeon.

This is why I can see where mickmoranis is coming from. SG is definitely harder than HS in the sense that it takes more killing power to be successful there. But that's because it's basically not a true dungeon at all. It's like if you're talking about who the toughest guy in the neighborhood is and someone is like, "Well, Brock Lesnar is a lot tougher." It's like yeah, no shit, but we're talking about guys from the neighborhood, you know?

I would define a true dungeon as meeting these criteria:

1) Indoors
2) Single groupable
3) Content intended to be used for leveling/XPing

Thoughts?

But there are parts to SG that are single groupable, so not sure if that would work. I mean, Sol B is a dungeon but also has fire giants and Nagafen, which are raids

[mickmoranis]

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Since this is obviously the case, it really calls into question whether SG should be properly considered a dungeon at all. If a zone is designed so that a single level and gear appropriate group cannot complete all of its content, then perhaps it should be more accurately labeled a mini-raid zone or a multi-group dungeon.

This is why I can see where mickmoranis is coming from. SG is definitely harder than HS in the sense that it takes more killing power to be successful there. But that's because it's basically not a true dungeon at all. It's like if you're talking about who the toughest guy in the neighborhood is and someone is like, "Well, Brock Lesnar is a lot tougher." It's like yeah, no shit, but we're talking about guys from the neighborhood, you know?

I would define a true dungeon as meeting these criteria:

1) Indoors
2) Single groupable
3) Content intended to be used for leveling/XPing

Thoughts?

yea, this a big reason I consider SG to be more of a mini raid zone than a dungeon, if you look at the square footage of the place, its way more in line with what you'd consider a raid encounter, than a dungeon, the fact that there are about 80% less drops than the average ever-quest dungeon leads me to feel this way, let alone the fact that some mobs are just not killable unless you have more than 6 people, or you're sicko 5 years emu server geared.

Originally Posted by Alanus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But there are parts to SG that are single groupable, so not sure if that would work. I mean, Sol B is a dungeon but also has fire giants and Nagafen, which are raids

Well, solB is more of a dungeon, with a SG attached to it. The fire giant section of SolB basically makes up half of SG's square footage, and actually has more item drops and named spawns than SG has all together.

Not even counting the XP/dungeon area of the zone.

[branamil]

Sounds like you're being defensive because you had embarrassing deaths in HS.

[mickmoranis]

no i just enjoy arguing about 17 year old games why are you so upset?

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by mickmoranis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no i just enjoy arguing about 17 year old games why are you so upset?

fuck yes

[Jimjam]

It can't be SG, because by the same metric Permafrost is harder. A level appropriate group is level 17 in rawhide, wielding shop bought claymores and two-handed warhammers, but there is a complete healing dragon in the zone. Plus fire and ice giants.

[easy_lee]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It can't be SG, because by the same metric Permafrost is harder. A level appropriate group is level 17 in rawhide, wielding shop bought claymores and two-handed warhammers, but there is a complete healing dragon in the zone. Plus fire and ice giants.

In addition to this, Dalnir is difficult at every appropriate level regardless of gear. I think that makes it a better contender for hardest dungeon than either Sol B or Permafrost.

On Sol B, just because a zone has raid content doesn't make it a raid zone. After all, every city has guild leaders, but we don't call cities dungeons. By the same token, just because a raid zone has group dungeon content doesn't make it a dungeon.