Save the Server, Allow guild instanced raid zones

[drktmplr12]

Originally Posted by Morlaeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

ST shouldn't even in the 'racing for mobs' equation.

If 2 guilds are keyed, yes it should. Right now that isn't the case, but repops would provide more keys and eventually more competition for ST.

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And remind me.

How many raid targets were there when there was no variance?

Before Velious, ignoring PoS:
10 targets not including VP
16 targets including VP

Velious, After Hate/Fear 2.0:
50+ targets not including ST
56+ targets including ST (leave 1 Warder alive)

Classic (4/7+):
Cazic Thule
Dracoliche
Fright (2.0)
Dread (2.0)
Terror (2.0)
Inny
Maestro
Various PoH Named (2.0)

Kunark (6):
Faydedar
Trakanon
Venril Sathir
Gorenaire
Talendor
Servelonius

Veeshan's Peak(6):
Druushk
Hoshkar
Nexona
Phara Dar
Silverwing
Xygoz

Velious(12):
Velketor the Sorcerer
Tunare
Dain Frostreaver IV
Derakor the Vindicator
King Tormax
Avatar of War
Wuoshi
Kelorek`Dar
Zlandicar (ST Key)
Klandicar (ST Key)
Sontalak (ST Key)
Lord Yelinak (ST Key)

Temple of Veeshan(19+):
Halls of Testing (various quest drops)
West Wing (4)
Arreken Skyward
Gozzrem
Lendiniara the Keeper (ST Key)
Telkorenar
North Wing (15)
Aaryonar
Cekenar
Dagarn the Destroyer
Eashen of the Sky
Ikatiar the Venom
Jorlleag
Lady Mirenilla
Lady Nevederia
Lord Feshlak
Lord Koi'Doken
Lord Kreizenn
Lord Vyemm
Sevalak
Vulak`Aerr
Zlexak

Sleeper's Tomb(7):
The Progenitor
The Final Arbiter
Master of the Guard
Hraashna the Warder
Nanzata the Warder
Tukaarak the Warder
Ventani the Warder

[Aalderon Crystafire]

Project 1999 - Classic Everquest

[Jabaniz]

I quit live because of stupid instanced shit

[andvarion]

Why don't people who want competition go play on red? It's actually, you know, designed for competition.

I'm not trolling. I genuinely want to know.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by andvarion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why don't people who want competition go play on red? It's actually, you know, designed for competition.

I'm not trolling. I genuinely want to know.

Racing a raid force to kill a dragon is a very different type of competition than PVPing. I personally enjoy PVP, just not in Everquest. You could just as easily say "Why don't people who don't want competition go play WoW?". It's a different game.

[maestrom]

Remove variance = Rampage gets 1 key, 3 other keys get taken by other guilds.

Sure they're in the lead right now, but they can't kill 4 targets spread out over 3 zones in 1 hour while being contested the whole way by as many as 7 other guilds.

Edit: And just in case you think that I meant that Rampage can't win a single race against 7 other guilds (they probably can most of the time). While Rampage goes after Sontalak, BDA will take Zland, Divinity will take all the time they want going after Yelinak, and FAT will take Kland.

Or they'll spread out in other ways.

Editpart 2: And "oh BDA can't kill Xmob" maybe not now. But remove variance, let them have their shot, and give them a few more months of taking raid targets, yeah they'll kill it.

[ArumTP]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remove variance = Rampage gets 1 key, 3 other keys get taken by other guilds.

Sure they're in the lead right now, but they can't kill 4 targets spread out over 3 zones in 1 hour while being contested the whole way by as many as 7 other guilds.

Edit: And just in case you think that I meant that Rampage can't win a single race against 7 other guilds (they probably can most of the time). While Rampage goes after Sontalak, BDA will take Zland, Divinity will take all the time they want going after Yelinak, and FAT will take Kland.

Or they'll spread out in other ways.

I disagree with your assessment of key easily keys can acquired. They can skip Soltanak (seen that shit skipped before) and Yelinak (has anyone even bothered racing for it?). Divinity works with rampage so I find it unlikely they would get one/be racing against them. So that leaves LtK, Kland, Zland being fought by Rampinity Foegard and BDA very tight and trainey race.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree with your assessment of key easily keys can acquired. They can skip Soltanak (seen that shit skipped before) and Yelinak (has anyone even bothered racing for it?). Divinity works with rampage so I find it unlikely they would get one/be racing against them. So that leaves LtK, Kland, Zland being fought by Rampinity Foegard and BDA very tight and trainey race.

You do know that none of those mobs are anywhere near each other?

Rampinity picks a mob, Foegard goes after a differeny mob, BDA takes the third.

Unless you think BDA can train Zland to Sontalak.

[Morlaeth]

Reasonable argument, but counter productive to whom? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Morlaeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reasonable argument, but counter productive to whom? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Uuuuuggggghhhhhhh :P

I'll be more precise.

Why was variance put in in the first place?

I wasn't there so I don't know if Rogean and Nilbog have put out official statements on the issue, but Sirken said recently that variance and the current crop of raid rules were put in place to keep 10 guilds from showing up and insta-gibbing targets the second they spawned.

They preferred a server where guilds tracked certain raid targets and then when one popped, they raced to the target to get to kill it. Variance was a reasonable part of the solution when there were only handful of raid targets outside of VP. And, for a time at least, it seemed like variance was doing its job.

This may have been necessary (if you're only willing to assume an FTE ruleset) in Kunark with only 5-6 raid targets outside of VP, but that's another conversation.

What happens with Velious though? In velious we have quite a few more raid targets. The restrictions on player conduct (FTE, no tracker FT, DQing folks past IZ) are more than enough to ensure a footrace to each target. We also have most targets going down to Rampage uncontested because variance has spread them out so much. Is it really a footrace if Rampage casually kills Zland at 4am while everyone else is asleep?

Taking out variance, on the other hand, keeps spawns bunched together. Rampage might get their first choice uncontested (because other guilds will see whatever Rampage is going after and go someplace else). Guilds will generally get their first choice because they'll see what's spawning first and they'll spread out, but their second choices will involve lots of that mobilization that everyone seems to really love here. If its a full pop, guilds will have to be strategic in picking which targets they want. Contrast this to the current model of "Tormax and Kland are in window, camp one force in kael, one force in WW, keep your phones on you for when the sockers send the text-blast".

So if the goal of variance was either to reduce socking, encourage racing, and distribute kills more evenly between guilds, it is counter-productive to its own goals. Variance encourages socking, discourages racing, and gives the guild with the most ability to log in at 10am on a Monday the best chance at killing a target.