Save the Server, Allow guild instanced raid zones

[maestrom]

Remove variance = Rampage gets 1 key, 3 other keys get taken by other guilds.

Sure they're in the lead right now, but they can't kill 4 targets spread out over 3 zones in 1 hour while being contested the whole way by as many as 7 other guilds.

Edit: And just in case you think that I meant that Rampage can't win a single race against 7 other guilds (they probably can most of the time). While Rampage goes after Sontalak, BDA will take Zland, Divinity will take all the time they want going after Yelinak, and FAT will take Kland.

Or they'll spread out in other ways.

Editpart 2: And "oh BDA can't kill Xmob" maybe not now. But remove variance, let them have their shot, and give them a few more months of taking raid targets, yeah they'll kill it.

[Pyrocat]

Originally Posted by andvarion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why don't people who want competition go play on red? It's actually, you know, designed for competition.

I'm not trolling. I genuinely want to know.

Racing a raid force to kill a dragon is a very different type of competition than PVPing. I personally enjoy PVP, just not in Everquest. You could just as easily say "Why don't people who don't want competition go play WoW?". It's a different game.

[ArumTP]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remove variance = Rampage gets 1 key, 3 other keys get taken by other guilds.

Sure they're in the lead right now, but they can't kill 4 targets spread out over 3 zones in 1 hour while being contested the whole way by as many as 7 other guilds.

Edit: And just in case you think that I meant that Rampage can't win a single race against 7 other guilds (they probably can most of the time). While Rampage goes after Sontalak, BDA will take Zland, Divinity will take all the time they want going after Yelinak, and FAT will take Kland.

Or they'll spread out in other ways.

I disagree with your assessment of key easily keys can acquired. They can skip Soltanak (seen that shit skipped before) and Yelinak (has anyone even bothered racing for it?). Divinity works with rampage so I find it unlikely they would get one/be racing against them. So that leaves LtK, Kland, Zland being fought by Rampinity Foegard and BDA very tight and trainey race.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by ArumTP [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I disagree with your assessment of key easily keys can acquired. They can skip Soltanak (seen that shit skipped before) and Yelinak (has anyone even bothered racing for it?). Divinity works with rampage so I find it unlikely they would get one/be racing against them. So that leaves LtK, Kland, Zland being fought by Rampinity Foegard and BDA very tight and trainey race.

You do know that none of those mobs are anywhere near each other?

Rampinity picks a mob, Foegard goes after a differeny mob, BDA takes the third.

Unless you think BDA can train Zland to Sontalak.

[Morlaeth]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why not?

Because only a guild are two are keyed right now? ST keys aren't like VP and aren't real bottlenecks. In 6 months half of the 60s on the server will have an ST key. ST should absolutely be included.

Which tags are half these 60s under?

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Morlaeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which tags are half these 60s under?

Maybe I'm missing something.

If all of NToV, Statue, Zland, Kland, Tormax, Sontalak, Lendi are all due to pop within 30 minutes of each other, you think Rampage is going to take all of them?

Yeah, half of the 60s in 6 months is an exaggeration (only ~130 keys will drop in the next 6 months). But thats plenty for 2-3 guilds to get raid forces into ST.

[Morlaeth]

Originally Posted by maestrom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe I'm missing something.

If all of NToV, Statue, Zland, Kland, Tormax, Sontalak, Lendi are all due to pop within 30 minutes of each other, you think Rampage is going to take all of them?

Yeah, half of the 60s in 6 months is an exaggeration (only ~130 keys will drop in the next 6 months). But thats plenty for 2-3 guilds to get raid forces into ST.

Hold the phone...Tormax and Statue drop key talis?!

Joking aside, the devs have had 16 hour variance on here forever, it's not going to change.

[maestrom]

Originally Posted by Morlaeth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hold the phone...Tormax and Statue drop key talis?!

Joking aside, the devs have had 16 hour variance on here forever, it's not going to change.

naw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But guilds have to set priorities. If everything is popped, is Rampage going to go after Lendi or are they going to go after Tormax or Statue? Actually they'll probably be in NToV. So if there's a quake during prime time, I would expect Rampage to get 1 key or 0 keys because they'll lose half of NToV if they try to block key mobs.

I understand that variance has been here forever, but its not classic and there is a lot of discussion about whether it makes sense anymore. In Kunark, might have been "necessary" (i disagree), but in Velious it seems to be counter productive.

[Morlaeth]

Reasonable argument, but counter productive to whom? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[rayeatts]

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you bring up the crux of variance. This would really not be a problem if server repops synchronized the spawns periodically and variance was lowered to 2-3 hour window.

Lets remember that repops and 0 variance is classic. variance was implemented because there wasn't enough raid targets to keep people busy. So when one was about to spawn-EVERYONE showed up.

I would argue that with velious, there are enough targets to keep everyone busy enough so that variance can be reasonably lowered or eliminated all together.

for argument's sake:

lets assume guild A is keyed for ST and another guild B is getting keys, but cannot compete in ST.

without repops and with variance as high as it is:

the spawn times for necklace dropping mobs (and all others for that matter) tend to diverge and guild A can effectively take every single one they want since they are the largest with most play time and are the most available for tracking. guild A takes 90% of ST key holders and laughs on their way to ST. This is okay and normal since they are putting more effort into the game. The problem is that variance really tips the scales in their favor and perpetuates the state of end game.

With lower variance and simulated repops:

guild A will race to dragons that drop necklaces and ignore ST for as long as they want, since no one else can enter. but they can't possibly get them ALL since others will be competing. With as many necklace dropping targets as there are, no reason why guild B can't get ST keyed to compete within a period of 3-4 months. there would also be (1) higher degree of predictability (far from certain though) to spawn times which helps people plan their game time (2) the tendency for spawn timers to diverge is dampened significantly (3) repops would force more keys into guild B hands, but only if guild B can mobilize and kill things before guild A.

Once B is keyed, guild A needs to race to ST on a repop. Both guilds A and B are now competing for ST and leaving necklace targets alone for guilds C, D, E and F.

this ended up being alot longer than i meant for it to be...thanks for reading!

end variance!
simulated repops!

tldr;
0 variance and repops are classic.
large spawn windows with no repops perpetuates the shit show.

This man clearly knows what he is talking about. Others should consider what he's saying.