Class XP Penalties

[fadetree]

Yeah, Dal's hit the nail on the head. Thats why I gave it a 99.99% chance of not happening.

And yeah, the guys saying that things that are classic but dumb/no fun/broken need to be changed, go back and read through the 5 zillion threads that have beaten this to death. The main takeaway is that this server is not intended to be ( your version of ) fun, its intended to be classic ( as possible, there's some things they couldn't deal with ). Period.

[fadetree]

There is an argument to be made based on magnitude, which is what day is saying I think, plus a timeline argument of duration, but...still I don't see them doing this. And they would have to go through lengthy justifications on all the other things, as dal mentioned.

[Zaela]

Balancing is about responding to how players are actually playing the game.

"Timelining" balance changes seems like a weird decision to me. Non-balance related content changes, sure. But balancing on a timeline is anti-balancing. It's balancing it for the people who were playing in 2000, not the players on p99 who are playing right now.

2cp

[Rattle Squirrell]

Originally Posted by Zaela [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Balancing is about responding to how players are actually playing the game.

"Timelining" balance changes seems like a weird decision to me. Non-balance related content changes, sure. But balancing on a timeline is anti-balancing. It's balancing it for the people who were playing in 2000, not the players on p99 who are playing right now.

2cp

No idea what you just said. If most peoples defense is that "it wasn't fixed until velious" and velious was released 6-7 months after Kunark. It doesn't seem like 4 years later is a suitable time to fix something that was obviously wrong.....

[Zaela]

Originally Posted by Rattle Squirrell [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No idea what you just said.

Just saying. If people are refusing to group with certain classes flat out, that's a balance issue. It should be addressed now because of those people, not later because of some magic timeline. Balance and game design should trump classicness when it comes down to it. As it sometimes does (non-classic nerfs).

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Zaela [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just saying. If people are refusing to group with certain classes flat out, that's a balance issue. It should be addressed now because of those people, not later because of some magic timeline. Balance and game design should trump classicness when it comes down to it. As it sometimes does (non-classic nerfs).

These are pretty damn few and far between.

Pet aggro / non-weapon Dual Wield when pet spam was being used to down PoSky
Ivandyrs Hoop recharging/unresistability to instagib dragons

What really should've been nuked earlier than it was:

Invis pulling - that was just dumb as hell

What really should still get nuked:

SoulFire clickable by all classes
Donal's shouldn't be 20s and chain able on a single target

... But that wouldn't be classic so it's in. Honestly, the pet aggro/DW were fixed and Ivandyr's should be unnerfed to be rechargeable and just make it not be clickable on a few raid mobs.

[Baldur]

So to me being rejected from a group because your class doesn't bring anything to the group that other classes don't bring better is WAY different than being rejected from a group because you slow down their exp.

Also the remedy for exp penalty is way easier to do than fixing no one wanting druids in their group. What you're talking about is class balance and effectiveness. Exp penalty is just that, a penalty that is shared by the entire group. Not sure if you're trying to conflate the two here or what your point is.

[Glenzig]

I've said it already, but, I'm all for lifting the hybrid penalty early if the devs decide they want to. I just don't think it will make the impact that you think it will make. People pack into dungeons because that's where the best loot typically is, and the XP rates are better than outdoor zones. They even discriminate as to which dungeons at certain levels are better. There are a lot of dungeons that are almost completely unused. Befallen is a good example of this. One of the best Zems in the game, but no real chance for good sellable loot. I really honestly think that if they go ahead and lift the hybrid penalty early, its just going to be more of the same dungeon groups with a ranger instead of 2 rogues. There would probably be more rangers soloing in outdoor zones, but I can't see why people would all of a sudden be clamoring to get in a group with them. Sorry I just do t see your argument being that valid.
That being said. I would support hybrid penalties being lifted early. But I'm not going to stew over it if they aren't.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Glenzig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've said it already, but, I'm all for lifting the hybrid penalty early if the devs decide they want to. I just don't think it will make the impact that you think it will make. People pack into dungeons because that's where the best loot typically is, and the XP rates are better than outdoor zones. They even discriminate as to which dungeons at certain levels are better. There are a lot of dungeons that are almost completely unused. Befallen is a good example of this. One of the best Zems in the game, but no real chance for good sellable loot. I really honestly think that if they go ahead and lift the hybrid penalty early, its just going to be more of the same dungeon groups with a ranger instead of 2 rogues. There would probably be more rangers soloing in outdoor zones, but I can't see why people would all of a sudden be clamoring to get in a group with them. Sorry I just do t see your argument being that valid.
That being said. I would support hybrid penalties being lifted early. But I'm not going to stew over it if they aren't.

I pref xp over loot, myself. It's not like I can't just go to EC and buy the gear I actually need. And again, people packed into just a small number of zones, this is not the norm, there is a reason, which I've addressed. If we had a pop like as on early live, this problem would be screaming out at you. This only retards population growth. Well as long as you are happy getting your loots in the over camped dungeons with a low pop server, but too bad this server wasn't more balanced to retain more of a population.

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I pref xp over loot, myself. It's not like I can't just go to EC and buy the gear I actually need. And again, people packed into just a small number of zones, this is not the norm, there is a reason, which I've addressed. If we had a pop like as on early live, this problem would be screaming out at you. This only retards population growth. Well as long as you are happy getting your loots in the over camped dungeons with a low pop server, but too bad this server wasn't more balanced to retain more of a population.

I agree with you. I favor XP more than loot. But it appears that we are in the minority.