Michael Brown - Page 13

capco · #1 08-18-2014, 08:22 PM

Last Week Tonight with John Oliver: Ferguson, MO and Police Militarization (HBO):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUdHI...ature=youtu.be

Ratstomper · #2 08-18-2014, 09:31 PM

It gets very tiring hearing hyperbole and bias from any and all sides. The few even-keeled views I've seen have been nice to see and help me from going crazy myself (I work in south St. Louis, so everyone is on about it).

Brown stealing cigarillos isn't right, but irrelevant to the shooting. Brown, by what I've heard, probably assaulted a police office in his car. If he had been shot in a scuffle inside a police car, I could call it justified. Shooting an unarmed person who is 30 ft away and no longer being aggressive...I can't see how to justify that.

The sad part is this will (and already has been) leveraged for political agendas on all sides. In the end, a young man is dead, a community is in upheaval and the event will get tossed onto the pile of things people use to justify whatever beliefs they have, regardless of what those beliefs may be. Tragic.

Orruar · #3 08-18-2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratstomper [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It gets very tiring hearing hyperbole and bias from any and all sides. The few even-keeled views I've seen have been nice to see and help me from going crazy myself (I work in south St. Louis, so everyone is on about it).

Brown stealing cigarillos isn't right, but irrelevant to the shooting. Brown, by what I've heard, probably assaulted a police office in his car. If he had been shot in a scuffle inside a police car, I could call it justified. Shooting an unarmed person who is 30 ft away and no longer being aggressive...I can't see how to justify that.

...

It sounds like perhaps you've already made up your mind as to what happened? How do you know that he was no longer being aggressive? One side of the story states that he was rushing the police officer at the time the officer unloaded into him. If he was running straight for the officer after previously attacking the officer, is the shooting not justified?

Ratstomper · #4 08-18-2014, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It sounds like perhaps you've already made up your mind as to what happened? How do you know that he was no longer being aggressive? One side of the story states that he was rushing the police officer at the time the officer unloaded into him. If he was running straight for the officer after previously attacking the officer, is the shooting not justified?

My viewpoint is dictated by what details are verified. Brown running back toward the officer is unverified. Regardless, he was unarmed. Cops have non-lethal ways of bringing people into submission. They also have training to keep cool under duress.

What your saying hinges on the word "if": "IF he was running straight for the officer after attacking the officer...". There are also accounts that Michael had his hands up and have given up. When you run away from someone with a gun, you don't turn around and run back toward them. Not after you've moved 30+ feet away, anyways. That makes no sense.

Orruar · #5 08-18-2014, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratstomper [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My viewpoint is dictated by what details are verified. Brown running back toward the officer is unverified. Regardless, he was unarmed. Cops have non-lethal ways of bringing people into submission. They also have training to keep cool under duress.

What details are verified exactly? Almost none, and making a decision in such a state of ignorance requires one to rely on faith/emotion, which is a poor way for intelligent beings to behave. You are a prisoner to emotional arguments, such as the "unarmed man" argument that has been prevalent lately. An unarmed man can pose just as much of a threat as an armed one. There is not a single self defense law in the US that requires a person is protecting themselves from an armed aggressor only.

Quote:

What your saying hinges on the word "if": "IF he was running straight for the officer after attacking the officer...". There are also accounts that Michael had his hands up and have given up. When you run away from someone with a gun, you don't turn around and run back toward them. Not after you've moved 30+ feet away, anyways. That makes no sense.

Yes, there are a lot of IFs out there because there is a great deal about this that is not yet known. I'm giving possible reasons why you should withhold judgment. I am well aware of the extreme state of ignorance all of us are in regarding the situation, and urging you to not make a decision one way or the other until all the facts are out. And if you bother reading the rest of this thread (not really recommended as it's long and boring mostly), you'd see I do the same to people who have already determined Mr. Brown to be guilty of assault and the cop completely innocent.

Ratstomper · #6 08-18-2014, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What details are verified exactly? Almost none, and making a decision in such a state of ignorance requires one to rely on faith/emotion, which is a poor way for intelligent beings to behave. You are a prisoner to emotional arguments, such as the "unarmed man" argument that has been prevalent lately. An unarmed man can pose just as much of a threat as an armed one. There is not a single self defense law in the US that requires a person is protecting themselves from an armed aggressor only.

Yes, there are a lot of IFs out there because there is a great deal about this that is not yet known. I'm giving possible reasons why you should withhold judgment. I am well aware of the extreme state of ignorance all of us are in regarding the situation, and urging you to not make a decision one way or the other until all the facts are out. And if you bother reading the rest of this thread (not really recommended as it's long and boring mostly), you'd see I do the same to people who have already determined Mr. Brown to be guilty of assault and the cop completely innocent.

Not once did I say whether one party was guilty or not. I said I don't see how, with the details that have been released, that the shooting was justified. We do have some details to work with here.

All I said for sure was that this is going to become a statistic and people are going to use the emotional leverage it generates for their own ends and that bums me out. Also, that it is a tragedy, which is true regardless of what outcome occurs.

Byrjun · #7 08-18-2014, 09:47 PM

Tim Pool is now live at https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=CmqHVKNZkhM

Was just talking to J. Cole.

indiscriminate_hater · #8 08-18-2014, 10:30 PM

Riveting commentary

Tasslehofp99 · #9 08-19-2014, 12:13 AM

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.

MrSparkle001 · #10 08-19-2014, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've really been contemplating leaving the USA as soon as I finish school; this place is fucked. I'd rather live in a place where the government isn't allowed to murder it's citizens with impunity.

Now there's a guy who understands the situation and isn't jumping to crazy conclusions.