petition to keep map software off red99

[August]

Originally Posted by MC Epic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure if you followed the whole thread up until now, but I tried to bring up the idea for COMMUNITY to police ourselves.

I'm not talking about running to a GM to ban everyone you think breaks the rules; we've had enough of that on this server for a lifetime, and in fact I don't want to see anyone get banned (we're trying to promote server growth, not the opposite).

I'm talking about community standing up and saying "NO" to the use of third-party programs which provide an unintended advantage (by circumventing the purposeful removal of maps from the eqgame client) .

The very small portion of the player-base who currently indulge in these programs would quit if their peers stood up against it. The problem is if the offender's peers are inclined to "look the other way", or join the bad behaviour. Thus follows the downward spiral of cheat or be cheated.

Rogean has already set down the law with third party programs.
http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2651

It's up to us, the community, to uphold the spirit of the rules; to stand up to the rule-breakers and refuse to associate with them unless they play legit.

It's not providing any advantage undue to anyone else unless you consider using the wiki w/ it's maps and loc-grids as also unfair. This is literally just taking that map, and putting you on it instead of you looking at the numbers to figure it out.

Also, how would you enforce people using it / not using it? There is no way to tell.

3rd party programs typically interact with the program they are hacking either by injection or by man-in-the-middle. This does neither.

What you're suggesting is the equivalent of everyone refusing to use the wiki

[MC Epic]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's not providing any advantage undue to anyone else unless you consider using the wiki w/ it's maps and loc-grids as also unfair. This is literally just taking that map, and putting you on it instead of you looking at the numbers to figure it out.

It's providing a huge advantage. You are artificially circumventing the need to learn how to navigate zones, learn how to use /loc with map.

It takes a GREAT amount of time to learn every zone.
It's also EASY to get lost in the chaos of PvP; especially if you don't know the zone.

In the heat of PvP, there is NO WAY you can /loc and navigate your way on a map.

HOWEVER, with a 3rd party cheat, you can just have a live updated map of the zone and your location, and NEVER get lost.

Just Yondered half a zone away? NO WORRIES just glance over at your other monitor for your EXACT location.....

This doesn't sound like an unfair advantage to you?

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, how would you enforce people using it / not using it? There is no way to tell.

I beg to differ. Already in this thread alone, Agatha has called out Jupe for developing this program. People talk, and let things slip. _All the time_.

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3rd party programs typically interact with the program they are hacking either by injection or by man-in-the-middle. This does neither.

It's not your typical cheat? So? That fact doesn't change that it circumvents a feature which was purposefully removed from the client. I've already detailed many ways to use logging parser plug-ins to re-create MQ2 functionality... are those not cheats, simply because they don't use the most common methods of doing so?

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you're suggesting is the equivalent of everyone refusing to use the wiki

This is a large leap; I did not infer any such similarity.

On Wiki, YOU have to figure out your location, figure out your direction, and plot your course. With a 3rd party mapping program, you don't have to do any such thing.

Further, if you get attacked and run off to get lost in Emerald Jungle with me hot on your tail, I WELCOME you to alt tab to Wiki with your /loc and plot your escape.

//edited a spelling mistake.

[Agatha]

running game parsers, mq, and 3rd party programs are as classic as u can get sadly to say.

[Ames who?]

Originally Posted by Agatha [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

running game parsers, mq, and 3rd party programs are as classic as u can get sadly to say.

It is sad 2 say***


dem drugs

[LulzSect]

Originally Posted by Agatha [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

running game parsers, mq, and 3rd party programs are as classic as u can get sadly to say.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[MC Epic]

Originally Posted by Agatha [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

running game parsers, mq, and 3rd party programs are as classic as u can get sadly to say.

Is that supposed to be a relevant argument?

[Rettj]

A real GM tho

[MC Epic]

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what you're saying is, you want the barrier to entry on red to be even greater

Forgive the cut-sentence quote, but there is no barrier to entry on red. Quite the opposite, there is a stimulus to entry on red.

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

because you want to enforce having a lexical knowledge of every zone to be competitive?

EverQuest is ALL ABOUT that lexical knowledge. On both servers, it's what guilds wipe over and over again to acquire when facing new raid encounters. On both servers, it's what makes the difference between someone who is a Pro at his class versus one who got PowerLeveled to 60 and never learned the nuances of how to play. On both servers, learning these things is the point of playing the game, and what makes it such a great game.

On red, there are many things to learn about every aspect of the game: how spells differ in PvP to PvE, how to use terrain and mobs to your advantage in PvP, maintaining buff order, how to react to different PvP situations, and YES: How to navigate zones without need for a map!

What I'm saying has nothing to do with what "I want". Third-party programs are against server rules. Period. Mapping functionality was purposefully removed from the client. Period. Using a third-party application to circumvent that fact is a violation of the spirit of server rules set forth by Rogean. Period.

Having said that, I will definitely and without remorse concede that "I want" to play on a legit server without third party hacks.

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It would only be unfair if I wrote the program and used it only for myself.

Beautifully flawed logic.

Originally Posted by August [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anything that is not modifying the client is not a hack. If you can create MQ2 functionality from a log, then I'm assuming it's not doing anything that would be considered cheating.

Respectfully, you are wrong. Also with respect, I must decide to not describe in detail (any more then I already have) the ways to cheat without hooking into the eqgame.exe client.

[Rettj]

Ban Mc epic for hacking and bragging

We don't like ur kind round hur boy

[MC Epic]

/golf clap