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#121
08-12-2013, 11:02 PM
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#122
08-12-2013, 11:04 PM
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I think Luclin was a giant step up for EQ, and MMO's. The zones were a big leap from Velious. Velious was just a lot of icy, snow covered, wind blowing zones a million miles apart. I still like playing Cats today on live and a Beastlord is still one of my favorite classes. Luclin at the beginning of it was like playing a entirely new kind of game. I guess I and others liked it, you didn't. Fair enough. I still play live today. So different strokes. I play EQmac more now than here also.
P1999 has just stood still WAY too long. | ||
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#123
08-12-2013, 11:18 PM
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Luclin in the beginning did not have Stones or the new graphics for grass etc. when it first came out. It did have the Bazaar and Cats plus the Nexus Portals. And AA's. After the stones came out I must admit the old game lost a lot. I don't think the original Bizaar was that bad in reality. The new one, well yeah.
But now there are over 500 zones to play and as a solo player I like it a lot. I get bored easily so I am in hog heaven on live. And there is some neat AA's that do even out the classes like I think the Dev's would have liked it to be in the start. It is just stupid on here that hardly anyone plays a Ranger, Pally at all and even a SK, Druid goes to crap after level 50. When and if Velious ever comes out it will be full of Warriors, Clerics, Monks, Rogues grouping and Shamans soloing. Sounds pretty boring in the long run. | ||
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Last edited by webrunner5; 08-12-2013 at 11:38 PM..
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#124
08-12-2013, 11:49 PM
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But, positions can only be stated and explained so many times before it becomes meaningless, so I'll bow out now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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Last edited by t0lkien; 08-13-2013 at 12:14 AM..
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#125
08-13-2013, 01:04 AM
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As to stat inflation, there is no question developers gave in to the temptation to reward people with too-powerful items. This is a bad policy for obvious reasons, mainly because it will eventually destroy interest in old content just to briefly increase interest in new stuff. But you must admit that the numbers have to go up to keep people interested, and triple digits were inevitable. I think they probably went 10% too far with Luclin, which set the precedent for exponential jumps. BUT, like monetary inflation, the real problems are pushed into the future and Luclin items were fun and powerful and not yet game-breaking. There were some too-easily obtained droppable weapons (like Centi weapons) that destroyed the market for old world gear, and worse, enthusiasm for old world zones; but on the other hand, I didn't upgrade my t staff until our fourth emperor kill, and most Velious armor is only replaced in Umbral/Ssra/VT. Weapons and gear from ToV and ST were very hard to replace at all. I think the class distinction argument is the easiest one to take apart. It is still a huge advantage to teleport from wherever your group happens to be rather than run to a spire or a book. It is still a huge advantage to have selo's instead of a mount. They gave new powers to everyone without ruining class-defining roles. SoW was still 5% faster than Swift Journey2, which was a pain in the ass to get, and shaman have had it since level 9 in classic. I don't see why a level cap shaman would be sad about not having to sow his guild as often, or how not having to do so destroys a beautiful interaction. More anecdotes: Critical hits were a cool thing to give other classes, but warriors stayed ahead of the pack. Class AAs were awesome rewards to work up to [Stonewall stands out in my mind, as well as EQ/AM for rangers and MGB for everyone], and actually deepened class distinctions. AAs gave the game a second life at level cap instead of everyone either twinking or quitting once they've done the raid content. I just don't see how you can look back on the imperfect class development of the previous 3 expansions and say that Luclin is where it all went wrong. Powers were shared and increased--and just like with stat inflation, perhaps to too great a degree--but everyone still understood that nobody was going to out-heal a cleric. Somehow, the game had to mature and characters had to feel stronger. When it comes to the math behind character progression, it does seem like numbers across the board could have been kept more linear. Context and lore went out the window for Luclin and heralded a future where EQ would entirely stop trying to tell you a story you could care about (though they over-compensated with PoP's scripted progression). BUT, most raid content was new and interesting and your character felt more powerful than ever. At the same time, Velious raid targets and quests still posed a challenge and even certain Kunark and vanilla drops remained desirable. In total, Luclin was definitely a step backward, but hardly a game destroyer. There was a lot of content to play through and more zone variety than in the rest of the game combined, plus it bridged the gap to PoP, which failed in its own ways, but at least managed to close the book on EQ with some class. For what its worth, I agree that "classic" eq ends with Velious, but I think "tolerable" EQ ends with PoP. | |||
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#127
08-13-2013, 03:25 AM
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i've never understood why so many folks draw the line at "moon kitties" or "space cats" or whatever folks called them. it never seemed any stranger to me then "snake men on the moon" or "4 armed aliens in dresses on the moon" or uhmm everyone else on the moon.
its a fantasy game, after all...how is walking and talking cats on norrath any more or less ridiculous than putting them on the moon? p | ||
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#128
08-13-2013, 03:28 AM
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#129
08-13-2013, 04:14 AM
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When Velious comes out TMO, FE, IB will have the high end stuff locked up for 6 months. Tons of people are already level 60 so what are their mains going to do? Two years into Velious people will be pissing and moaning just like they are now about Kunark. With no way out. Like I have said before Velious was not one of my favorite expansions. So I am looking forward to it and not. PoP made all the other expansions look like a cake walk compared to all the work it took to get into PoT. Then is when you NEEDED to group. Only real time you NEED to group now is to get your high end pieces for your Epic. But I am not complaining about P1999. I have had a lot of fun on here so far. Got better gear than I ever had in the original Kunark for sure. So Nilbog has made a lot of us happy and that is a good thing. I am sure he even smiles once in awhile also. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] | |||
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#130
08-13-2013, 05:24 AM
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The only thing that actually matters about expansions are the design/story elements and how they shape the game World. You don't need to release an expansion to change class balance, or item balance, or raid encounters, or even to introduce new content. The original Everquest could have continued exist, and would have been more successful in the long run, without adding any new zones at all (great new zones can obviously be a benefit, though). What you need to do is continually change quests and character abilities and drops and NPC behavior/spawns.
If all of those elements are constantly changing, then your players are continually being challenged and exploring the game World, both through experiencing a new zone/encounter re-vamp and through questing for a new item or ability which has become the most ideal for a new game encounter and/or character build. There are plenty of ways to monetize the game with micro-transactions in order to make money, such as only being able to do a certain # of quests before you have to pay to do more, buying more character slots, buying more bank storage, buying new class skills...it's incredibly easy to nickel and dime players if they are loving the game and you're still getting new people buying the game all the time as well, since the game would never be something which requires anyone to "catch up" with regards to grinding and put new players off. Therefore, Luclin was definitely the end of Everquest. It had almost no connection whatsoever to the rest of the game World and a lot of the zones just felt like boxes IMO. PoP was even worse in that regard, completely obliterating the sense of an immersive World and having zones that 100% felt like boxes (well, I actually never even saw all of them, but I definitely saw enough). This was actually the one real design flaw of Original Everquest - the "Planes" were rather poorly designed in terms of conveying the sense of a GOD's entire territory. Kunark was easily the best expansion because it had a lot of brilliantly designed creatures and zones, which were highly explorable (dangerously!) and interconnected. The designs had a whole new feel as compared to Original Everquest and yet felt 100% organic to the game World. The Iksar being a playable race and starting off in the middle of the continent, and being hated EVERYWHERE else in the Old World (even by the evil races), was an excellent concept. Velious was good, but didn't quite feel fully formed. Yes, it's supposed to be one of the most desolate places on the planet, but there still could have been more to it. The fact that it was nearly all icy/snowy didn't bother me at all; this made complete sense and was even a necessary addition to the game World, since there were so few areas in the game with that kind of look and feel. The concept of the war between Giants and Dwarves was good, although it needed to have a bit more resonance. I REALLY think an extra, easier zone connection to Western Wastes was needed as well, to bridge the gap on the continent. A tunnel from Thurgadin would have made perfect sense (or rather a tunnel to another zone that connected to Western Wastes...if you look at the World map there's quite a gap there).
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Last edited by Zuranthium; 08-13-2013 at 05:33 AM..
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