Questioning GM Decisions

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Between the cheating, half-assed punishments, and disdain for dissenting opinions, well, new players should be scared of this server. And frankly, as a member of a community one has a responsibility to question the decisions of its leaders when those decisions are, for whatever reason, unpredictable and inconsistent.

Most of the dissent is taking place in this context. The "WIPE IT CLEAN" crowd, perhaps goes overboard but most people are discontent with the fact that the rule that everyone has followed when they "Agreed to the Project 1999 EULA" was null and void for this case due to an inconsistency in the very philosophy of the server staff at large.

As mentioned, previous instances in which players or entities were reprimanded for similar reasons resulted in public knowledge and ridicule well beyond what should have occurred, according to this thread. That was no healthier to the server than what is being exclaimed now, yet it went on for months via thread tags, posts, and in game. This is the same thing on a larger scale, affecting more people, and now it's no longer okay? The problem people have is that their friends, guildmates, groupmates, forum buddies, etc betrayed their trust. Sure it's over pixels but it's still unseeming of a server that promotes fairness to have a rampant problem that people wan to push under the rug.

I'm for quelling the loudmouths that are shouting WIPE IT CLEAN, but beyond that you should expect dissent. I don't see anything wrong with that whether the opinion is in the majority or minority. Transparency is important.

Actual edit: ONLY private discourse involving such a public matter would not promote transparency or trust, especially at this point. Due to the fact that the population at large is not getting a master list of everyone that was suspended, it should not come as a surprise that people are voicing disapproval and even saying they don't want to stick around because they're not sure whether their groupmmate is a cheater or not. As mentioned by some, this is a fairly huge deal as the covenant of trust was broken between the players who "Accepted the Terms of Agreement of the P99 EULA" and those that decided to ignore it.

[Demetrium]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I read the first post. That's all. Here is what I think of it:

Between the cheating, half-assed punishments, and disdain for dissenting opinions, well, new players should be scared of this server. And frankly, as a member of a community one has a responsibility to question the decisions of its leaders when those decisions are, for whatever reason, unpredictable and inconsistent. Of course, they've said before that this is their place and theirs alone, players be damned, but that rings a bit hollow when multitudes of cheaters go on playing because they've become an entity too big to fail. Like CitiGroup, but with more back acne.

Personally, I won't participate in a server where cheaters are allowed to keep playing, nor will I participate in discussions where I am selectively censored in order to dupe prospective players into joining what they think is a server not suffering these ills.

This thread is as vile a piece of propaganda as it accuses others of perpetrating. It is blatant trolling and should be moved to RnF else it is lent credibility. I would question why it hasn't been moved already, but I'm not sure to whom I would pose the query without offending Hasbin's gentle sensibilities.

[yaaaflow]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally, I won't participate in a server where cheaters are allowed to keep playing, nor will I participate in discussions where I am selectively censored in order to dupe prospective players into joining what they think is a server not suffering these ills.

So just out of interest, shouldn't everyone who agrees with the above have been mad about this and quit like, more than a year ago? I mean just as a couple examples (and I like and respect both people I'm using as examples fwiw) Jeremy gets caught 2 boxing, is suspended and back playing about a month later. Koota gets caught using SEQ to track for his guild, is back playing a couple months later. Both of these happened > 1 year ago.

The GMs have shown leniency to people caught cheating in the past, is this so different? Seems to me the punishment handed out to the cheaters in this case is as or more severe than given in the two cases listed above.

[Mardur]

Moreso that punishments are handed out completely at random. Perhaps Rogean has a banhammer dartboard in the office.

[Hasbinbad]

OK Guys. This thread is not for discussing inter guild politics and such, there are plenty of threads for that, and you always have the option of making another one. Lets try and focus on the end result of all of the torch waving going on in different threads. It's not going to change what the GM's decided, and it's not helping get out awareness as the audience is already hyper-aware of the situation. Let's just cool it off guys.

Whatever happens, please keep this thread on topic.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets try and focus on the end result of all of the torch waving going on in different threads.

No no no.

The outrage directed at cheaters is not the problem. The cheaters are.

This thread is entirely self-serving. You couldn't care less about this server's health.

[JayDee]

W
I
P
E

[Vohl]

Originally Posted by JayDee [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

W
I
P
E

Perfection is the enemy of awesome.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Not true mitic. The if you can't beat em join em only applies on a level playing field. If someone is deliberately using anything others don't have access to (and this covers more then just 3rd party programs) to give them an unfair advantage then it isn't level. We are talkin deliberate willful knowing acts. There is only one game in town as far as a classic eq emu server and there is no reason multiple guilds can't raid the same targets here. Your argument that obviously we are all impotent, ignorant, and incapable is a joke.

if you cant fight them with your own weapons use theirs then and camp bosses, do rotations 24/7 to keep them on track, use batphones and stop blaming them on the forums. the only thing you get out of this is showing your own incapacity not being able to get things done.

We aren't talking about batphones here, or players who track 24/7. This thread over the uproar isn't about that.

saying that TR is responsible for destroying others guilds or friendships is just another affirmation about your very own weakness.

To use underhanded or unscrupulous tactics in whatever form to maintain an edge is condemnable and if willful, deliberate, and completely knowingly why then yes, I can point the finger of judgement. The people who don't resort to these whatever means necessary tactics are the ones not giving in to weakness. Let me speak hypothetically (or non-hypothetically from some point of view). If guild A knows exactly what mob spawns when and because of that stays on top and uses the fact they get all the raid mobs then you are saying the other guilds must be ineffectual and it affirms their weakness and inability to compete? It isn't weakness to not submit to greed. It is weakness to give in to that greed (not in all cases I grant you) where loot matters more. And preying on that weakness is what happens. And if your ability to use this method relies on you having an unfair advantage we all just suck because we can't. People that are aware or experience unfairness and have chosen to leave are just weak and obviously incompetent mental morons who can't compete because they have the ability to sink to that level. And when some do sink to that level they're bad people who cheat and train and rant and flame.

i got teh solution!

enforce boss rotation on blue99
if you dont like that, join red99

Now that is what I have been saying all along. Enforce rules and play nice on PVE and if you want anything goes where you can you step on your opponent's throat by any means necessary then go PvP. Way it has always been hasn't it?


And Hasbinbad it is on this topic because it directly correlates. It keeps going off topic (or back on topic) because of the fact is is related. You cry to put down the flames and while I am with you in principle I am not with you to censor anything that might cry outrage at what has been going on apparently on this server. Questioning GM decisions should be a dead issue because that was posted by Rogean a while back but if people feel strongly about something they believe to be a moral or ethical issue you are going to hear about it. Forums are a place to do that are they not? And if you value your reputation perhaps you should not be part of the machine that leads people to feel such outrage.

Gms can check when and how often he used it. You know, perun is a monk and therefore not out pulling dragons, how is it an advantage for the raid if he knows where the mob is and not telling anyone?

Nedala I know what you mean but the statement is ignorant. The very notion that obviously monks don't pull is something new to me. Perhaps some don't but to think that because TR doesn't use their monks to pull doesn't mean that obviously this is how it is done. You also state that if he knows where the mob is he doesn't tell anyone. Yeah I am sure no one else gets the information or it isn't used to an advantage. I was thinking about this the other day and going to say this just for argument's sake because obviously I don't know if it actually happened. But I have played this game a long time and I have led and pulled raids at the 'top end' as you are for years earlier in my gaming. Zone a monk into fear and get all the information you want. You don't have to tell anyone where guild A is or what the situation is, especially if you're a raid leader. Just direct your raid to do such and such and none the wiser. Zone into EJ and know the other guild has Sev and where. Know exactly where their force is and exactly where to set up. And that is just if we assume no one got told. Hell (and I am about to speculate here merely because you made the point using seq gives no advantage) you could take it further if you know what loot a mob has you know whether to go for that raid target that day or go for another first. If you know dracoliche has 2 shaman hammers with CT wielding 4 darkwood trunks and Innoruuk has 2 mage staves and a necro book well that could have an advantage too. All that said I find it boggling that you obviously believe monks don't pull dragons duh. Besides the obvious tactical advantages that exist in certain situations and knowing it is more about the player's level of skill and experience then simply the class ( meaning a good paladin could do the job versus a monk that only knows auto attack) to just think that is how all monks play duh baffles me.

[nalkin]

The gms/devs do listen to what the server thinks, probably not that much, but saying that speaking up will not change anything is wrong. It may not, but there is a chance that it will; it has before. Especially on something that almost the entire server agrees on. Remember global ooc my friends?

WHAT DO WE WANT?????
WHEN DO WE WANT IT??????