Let's keep talking about how Hasbinbad was banned.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Appollo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You make a good point. Although, I'm not sure. Again, as I mentioned before: it depends on the context. To be sure, Perun was an officer and an integral part of their success. However, no corporation, organization, sports team, or guild in an MMO is successful because of one person. More importantly, did the leadership know? That's something we may never know. Although, I still adhere to the belief that unless I'm given more than mere circumstantial evidence shown through mere association I will not believe that the leadership actually knew.

Does it taint their accomplishments? Yes, to a degree. But, it doesn't eviscerate them. Nor does it take away from the fact that they are a highly successful and skilled guild.

Should they be looking to replace their leadership because of no confidence? I don't know, I have never been in their guild nor do I know their leadership other than through conversation, albiet somewhat in depth. What I do know is that they should replace Perun, but that's something that we all knew and that's something that I think we can say will happen without a doubt. Should they replace the rest of the leadership? That's only something the guild can answer as a whole. But, my belief (for what it's worth given my context) is that it depends on how the leadership handles the current situation. My inclination is to say that they should not be removed. And, I base that conclusion on the fact that you cannot control the actions of others coupled with the fact that Xzerion has proved through the accomplishments of his guild that he is a capable leader.

I'm almost guaranteeing that Perun comes back to his original post after his suspension.

And I'm pretty sure Xzerion voted against bans for the cheaters since so many were in his pet guild.

[Appollo]

Originally Posted by EkireiTheNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm almost guaranteeing that Perun comes back to his original post after his suspension.

That remains to be seen, but I hope you're wrong.

Originally Posted by EkireiTheNecro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I'm pretty sure Xzerion voted against bans for the cheaters since so many were in his pet guild

No way to know that one. Although, even if he voted against it I wouldn't have a problem with that. The real punishment will come when they're removed from the guild, black listed for being cheaters and not capable of attaining what they once had and could have achieved.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Appollo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That remains to be seen, but I hope you're wrong.



No way to know that one. Although, even if he voted against it I wouldn't have a problem with that. The real punishment will come when they're removed from the guild, black listed for being cheaters and not capable of attaining what they once had and could have achieved.

Right.

Or none of those things could happen....

they get to retain all their uber-loots that they cheated to get...
they remain guided....
simply re-dupe more platinum....
and they ended up losing were a few levels.

[Skope]

you have to remember that they recruited virt even after he outted himself as an SEQer, not sure whether they knew that he was hobby or not, but that doesn't really matter. history suggests that it's certainly a possibility

Originally Posted by Appollo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if there were others, it does not raise itself to a systematic problem.

not a systematic problem? it absolutely is. in fact, it's a server-wide problem that was handled well by keeping it hush to catch them but absolutely atrociously after they were caught. 300+ not a systematic problem? forget guilds, it's way above that.

[EkireiTheNecro]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you have to remember that they recruited virt even after he outted himself as an SEQer, not sure whether they knew that he was hobby or not, but that doesn't really matter. history suggests that it's certainly a possibility




not a systematic problem? it absolutely is. in fact, it's a server-wide problem that was handled well by keeping it hush to catch them but absolutely atrociously after they were caught. 300+ not a systematic problem? forget guilds, it's way above that.

Live I said probably a dozen times in the last 2 days....

JUST POST ALL THE FUCKING NAMES.

They CHOSE to break the rules knowing full well the consequences. They got off light, however. Just post the names and let the community deal with it now.

[Appollo]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not a systematic problem? it absolutely is. in fact, it's a server-wide problem that was handled well by keeping it hush to catch them but absolutely atrociously after they were caught. 300+ not a systematic problem? forget guilds, it's way above that.

I admittedly do not know the exact numbers that have been banned that were TR members. However, from what I can gather from the "frequent forum followers" that have done an "investigation" is that there are about 5. I fail to see how 5 is indicative of a systematic problem for an entire guild. Perhaps it's just a matter of disagreement as to what constitutes a systematic problem, but ... well, yeah I disagree with you.

Insofar as a serve wide problem, I completely agree with you. But, that doesn't mean it is a systematic problem within one guild.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

forget guilds, it's way above that.

with 350 people it's not about guilds and it's not about numbers. you and i can sit here and discuss and compare who and how many people got nicked (and there are numbers and names) but it resolves nothing. so let me reiterate: it's not about guilds. cheating was a systemic problem here for a long time that was exacerbated by the fact that this is an emu where you don't owe anybody squat and the fact that there are so many damn tryhards here. seeing that number doesn't really shock many who've played it straight and been here a while. in fact it was kind of expected. the issue is that it wasn't handled well, or in my opinion barely handled at all.

[central scrutinizer]

Hey fin I dont read these forums much, and I dont play much either so maybe I dont know much and certainly dont matter but I see you slagged alot whenever I do read anything about or by you...

I rmember you being a polite and respectful player in another game years ago, be that guy. Nobody could dislike that guy. Dont let people bait you into lowering yourself, that is too much power to hand over to a stranger for no good reason.

And combat is nothing to wave around, there is nothing cool about luck running dry and turning to absolute shit, nobody needs to hear about it and they wont understand anyways they'll take some of the worst moments of your life and use them to reinforce whatever their ideas were before you opened your mouth, its useless to even try to explain.

If you even said anything about that. I dont know whats true or is just a flame in this section I dont read forums often, if not nevermind and appologies.

Not trying to cause trouble, I just remember you as a good guy and wish you well I'll delete this post if it bothers you

[Skope]

no... community deal with it? community had no say, and if you look at the recent poll they probably would have gotten permabanned HAD the community been given the opportunity to deal with it.

Out their names -- all of them -- AND delete the accts. with the way shit was handled currently cheating actually pays off here