JBB, is it really that good?

[greatdane]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have a problem using Pox without Insidious Decay in most cases. It really doesn't get resisted that often from my experience.

If you're 60 and casting on low blues, sure. In the kinds of situations that OP is likely to end up in - and OP said he's "high enough level to use JBB," so take from that what you will - tossing out disease dots without the DR debuff is a very poor choice. While you could book-swap it between melee swings of a slowed mob, that's a bit much to include as a matter of course. In anything but fringe cases (like a 60 shaman easyfarming with epic and all spells), devoting two spell slots/swaps to the disease dot is not really going to be worth the hassle it takes unless one specifically derives enjoyment from maximizing one's DPM. Hell, even then, it's only good DPM on mobs unusually high HP.

In very nearly all cases that are relevant to OP's question, you're better off just sticking with poison dots and JBB spam (though there won't be time for many casts of it even pre-60) because a single cast of Malowhatever will cover that, and the mobs that someone is likely to kill if they say that they're "high enough level to use JBB" will not live long enough to where it makes any sort of sense to work a DR debuff and disease dot into the rotation. That is, as you cherrypicked for your example, only worth doing if you're a level 60 shaman soloing dragons and things like that.

You do have a tendency to campaign for the fringe cases, and while I'm also a great lover of the extreme ends of this old game's mechanical spectrum, it's not always the right answer to give. OP is (or was, when he posted in fucking July) probably in his late 40s wondering if JBB is worth getting. Telling him what you can do at level 60 doesn't give him a very good answer, and that's a thing that happens too much around here.

This thread has a hell of a lot of "you can do this at level 60" theorycrafting for a guy who said he's just high enough level to use JBB. If he's like level 50, the best way to kill shit is malosimsalabim, slow, poison dot, and JBB spam, while dogdog gnaws away from behind.

[Snaggles]

The best argument for JBB is it being 1/5th the price of an epic and resellable so from 45-60 it's a tolerable way to grind.

Once you get torp mana is less limited. JBB becomes a green killer like for someone whos painfully slogging through droga or adding to quick kills with a duo/trio after slowing. One click of Bane is a massive chunk of hps for the same cast speed...it's the workhorse of your spells and for most stuff the only damage spell you need on the bar.

The more hps something has the more a double-line debuff and disease makes sense. Hell start meleeing with your scourge mallet too I guess. Just not low hp stuff like in Chardok. On non-rooted stuff where you can sit/swap spells if you are quick, keeping disease on the bar takes up 3 gems. It's also half the kill speed of bane only once fully debuffed.

I guess if I was moving through greens I might pull with it, root, and epic click the epic. That gives the most dot/mana for the least amount of clicks. Overall though it's pretty underwhelming unless killing things in that 25k+ hp range, speculatively as I never have done that.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best argument for JBB is it being 1/5th the price of an epic and resellable so from 45-60 it's a tolerable way to grind.

Once you get torp mana is less limited. JBB becomes a green killer like for someone whos painfully slogging through droga or adding to quick kills with a duo/trio after slowing. One click of Bane is a massive chunk of hps for the same cast speed...it's the workhorse of your spells and for most stuff the only damage spell you need on the bar.

The more hps something has the more a double-line debuff and disease makes sense. Hell start meleeing with your scourge mallet too I guess. Just not low hp stuff like in Chardok. On non-rooted stuff where you can sit/swap spells if you are quick, keeping disease on the bar takes up 3 gems. It's also half the kill speed of bane only once fully debuffed.

I guess if I was moving through greens I might pull with it, root, and epic click the epic. That gives the most dot/mana for the least amount of clicks. Overall though it's pretty underwhelming unless killing things in that 25k+ hp range, speculatively as I never have done that.

While Torpor does drastically increase your mana, you still have to wait for DoTs to clear since you can't stack Bane multiple times. You can stack Ebolt with Bane, but that assumes you have the spellbar slot in that scenario.

When you have some downtime between DoTing, Debuffing, Torporing, and Cannibalizing, JBB gives you free damage that you couldn't otherwise get due to limited spell slots. Having more damage that isn't tied to your spellbar is great on a class that is hurting for space on their spellbar.

JBB is also nice for saving mana when a mob is going to clear all their DoTs with a few % HP remaining. Spending 320-420 mana on Bane/Ebolt is going to be a waste in that scenario, especially if you have other mobs yet to kill.

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

JBB is +33dps -- 8s cast.

In that time, you can regain 246 mana with Cannibalize IV. You can then use that 246 mana to Torpor yourself, so that you can start Cannibalizing again. Usually by the time the Torpor ticks are through, Bane of Nife has run out, and you need to recast it. If you have mana leftover, another Torpor is good, and more Cannibalizing....etc ... etc.

Don't know where to fit in a JBB 8s click in that time for +33dps. Would rather use that 8s to Torpor, Cannibalize, a combination of both, or cast one of the passive damage spells like Bane, Pox, Plague, Epic click..

You don't want to always cannibalize all the time in every fight. Otherwise you will die from damage spikes. When I am fighting Ionat I average 4 Cannibalizes per Torpor. I don't go too crazy, because getting double attacked for 450 damage twice in a row (even while slowed) can kill you. If you are at a dangerous HP level, and there is no other spell to cast while you are waiting for Torpor to tick you back up, might as well throw in a JBB or two for extra DPS.

As a quick example https://youtu.be/oPxeOVuX0G8?feature=shared&t=745 - This video starts at 12:25. Between 12:25 and 12:33 I take 776 damage from Ionat and I was Cannibalizing, which was another 148 damage. In 8 seconds I took 924 damage while the mob was slowed. That is 35% of my total HP pool at 2620 life in 8 seconds, with buffs and raid gear. What if this damage spike occurred while you were in the middle of casting Torpor, and Torpor got interrupted? You could be taking 1500 damage or so total without Torpor. I've had bad luck like that happen before. It's simply not worth it to risk dying on a long fight like Ionat. You waste way more time dying than simply playing it safe and extending the fight a few minutes.

[long.liam]

Of course the JBB is good. Any kind of mana free DPS is nice to have. Lets you save your mana for healing yourself or other players. Can even let the pet tank while clicking the JBB. That way you don't even take dmg during the fight. JBB is almost 33 DPS. Pretty close to the DPS of Bane of Nife = 39 DPS, assuming no resists and no break in between each cast. If JBB will land I usually prefer using that over Bane. 425 Mana is a lot to lose in a difficult fight, especially if it gets resisted.

[Toxigen]

There is a reason most end game shaman sell their JBBs.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a reason most end game shaman sell their JBBs.

Source? Let's see the survey you based that "fact" on.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Source? Let's see the survey you based that "fact" on.

Well a lot of endgame sham's are Iksar's so 100% of those plus some others at 60 who thought the 15k could go somewhere better than a stat-less click toy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Troxx]

I sold mine after torpor.

No regrets

[zelld52]

I sold mine when I got epic at 54. I can't imagine trying to do permafrost bears 55-60 using a JBB constantly spamming and not cannibalizing instead of epic click, paralizing earth and chill

[Balladin]

Ogre Torp shaman still using my JBB here