Is Seal Team going to wake the sleeper?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The disconnect here is applying the argument of "players having the ability to deny loot is a dick move" to P99. Legacy item loot denial is a part of the game, and everybody but the most green of players understands that certain items get removed after a certain period of time. If you don't get the item in time, you don't get it.

Your argument would be valid if the Sleeper mechanic was the only situation in which legacy items got removed, AND Essence Lens didn't have the prerequisite of the Sleeper being awoken first. But neither of those are true, so the argument falls apart.

[loramin]

Death, you're being a pedant.

When the game kills you, or stops dropping loot, or does anything else negative, is it in some sense "dickish"? Yes.

Can any reasonably intelligent human (this includes you) understand the difference between the "dickishness" of a computer program, and the dickishness of humans who choose to be dicks? Also yes ...

... unless they have no actual argument to make, and pedantry is all they have left. so they "lean in to stupid" as you are doing so they can keep arguing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Death, you're being a pedant.

When the game kills you, or stops dropping loot, or does anything else negative, is it in some sense "dickish"? Yes.

Can any reasonably intelligent human (this includes you) understand the difference between the "dickishness" of a computer program, and the dickishness of humans who choose to be dicks? Also yes ...

... unless they have no actual argument to make, and pedantry is all they have left. so they "lean in to stupid" as you are doing so they can keep arguing.

Your argument about computers is fallacious on it's face. If you program a computer to automatically launch nuclear missiles at random time intervals, you blame the human who wrote the program. You don't shrug your shoulders and say "The programmer didn't intend to be a dick, the computer is launching the nukes!"

Please answer me straight: What gives you the right to deny Essence Lens to players? By leaving the Sleeper sleeping, you are actively participating in loot denial.

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please answer me straight: What gives you the right to deny Essence Lens to players? By leaving the Sleeper sleeping, you are actively participating in loot denial.

I agree that ST have the right to wake the sleeper and deny lootz, but this isn't really a valid comparison. If a guild really wants that quest line, they'll just wake the sleeper themselves to get it. Pre-wake warder drops are *already* available, and one guild can choose to make them not available anymore. The lens can be turned *on*, whereas warder loot can only be turned *off*. So it's different, you're expanding the definition of "loot denial" to fit that under the umbrella.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree that ST have the right to wake the sleeper and deny lootz, but this isn't really a valid comparison. If a guild really wants that quest line, they'll just wake the sleeper themselves to get it. Pre-wake warder drops are *already* available, and one guild can choose to make them not available anymore. The lens can be turned *on*, whereas warder loot can only be turned *off*. So it's different, you're expanding the definition of "loot denial" to fit that under the umbrella.

That doesn't make sense because Essence Lens requires Warder loot to be turned off. You can't open up Essence Lens without closing Warder loot. There is no way to wake sleeper AND keep warders up. If that was the case, people would indeed keep the Warders up for more items.

Arguing about waking the sleeper is really an argument about who deserves what loot more: Warriors/Monks for robe/scepter, or most other classes with Essence Lens? What gives you the right to decide? There is no right answer, which is why it isn't a dick move. Warriors/Monks become sad when Sleeper dies, but other classes become happy. This isn't a situation where the only thing you do is turn off loot.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That doesn't make sense because Essence Lens requires Warder loot to be turned off. You can't open up Essence Lens without closing Warder loot. There is no way to wake sleeper AND keep warders up. If that was the case, people would indeed keep the Warders up for more items.

Arguing about waking the sleeper is really an argument about who deserves what loot more: Warriors/Monks for robe/scepter, or most other classes with Essence Lens? What gives you the right to decide? There is no right answer, which is why it isn't a dick move. Warriors/Monks become sad when Sleeper dies, but other classes become happy. This isn't a situation where the only thing you do is turn off loot.

A) we're talking about a single item vs. a whole zone's worth of items

B) regardless, even if it was switched and post-Sleeper we got a bunch of items ... it's still a small minority of players denying the entire server, without that server having any say in the matter ... aka a "dick move"

P.S. And if you'd actually brought this point up ten pages ago (instead of repeating "but the game allows it!" for pages) we could have ... been at this point 10 pages ago [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tunabros]

loramin shut up bruh

no one cares

[Albanwr]

People complaining about this have no intention of even trying to get Sleepers loot. What on earth.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Albanwr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People complaining about this have no intention of even trying to get Sleepers loot. What on earth.

[Tethler]

I mentioned intent as a direct response to your assertion that it couldn't possibly be a dick move to wake the sleeper because the devs put it in the game.

Denying pixels was the stated reason for sleeper being awakened on blue, and it likely will be here too.

If not, that's great, but I doubt it.