Why are most of the artists in the USA democrats?

[fash]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's imagine you have a co-worker who always wears red shirts and always gives you a (too strong) friendly punch in the arm when he sees you. Eventually, after seeing him enough times, your brain learns "red shirt = punch". If he hits you hard enough your blood pressure will probably start raising the moment you see him and his red shirt ... before he even punches you, before you even have a conscious thought about him. In fact, your blood pressure will go up when you see anyone in a red shirt, because your body/brain has learned "red shirt = punch incoming".

Let's also imagine a certain demographic is 5x more likely to commit violent crimes. Eventually, after experiencing this firsthand and seeing evidence of this in your life, your body/brain has learned "this demographic = a violent crime is more likely to occur".

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But none of this is about what you think of the guy: you could love him and think he's a great person and you would still react. It's all way way lower-level than "hearts and minds" and such. But there absolutely is a real biological mechanism in play there: every human being on the planet, if they have that happen to them enough, will start having a physiological reaction to the sight of red shirts. And yes, your blood pressure (and the many other things that can be affected) do affect your thinking.

What does any of this have to do with racism? I can't remember if it was this thread or another one (and now I can't find a link), but in a study they found that when any race/gender (including black men) sees a black man their blood pressure rises. This is not "well my grand pappy taught me to hate black people and now I'm acting on that" kind of stuff, this is low-level behaviorist B. F. Skinner stuff. Think Pavlovian dogs' mouths watering to the sound of a bell (for those of you familiar with that famous experiment).

When any race/gender (whether or not a member of the violent demographic) sees a member of that demographic, their blood pressure rises. This is true since the victims of the demographic's violence are members of the demographic as well as non-members.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At the end of the day, it's just patterns. If the only Asian-looking people you see your whole life are villains in a TV show, it's perfectly natural that your brain will learn "Asian-looking person = danger". On a conscious level you might have no racism whatsoever towards Asian people, but your body is still reacting when it sees them. The only way to change that low-level "thinking" is to change the pattern: you need to see Asian-looking people not looking like villains (or anything else threatening) before your blood pressure will stop rising the moment you see an Asian person.

The only way to change that low-level "thinking" is to change the pattern: you need to see members of that demographic not looking like villains (or anything else threatening) before your blood pressure will stop rising the moment you see one of those people.

Of course, now you've conditioned the pavlovian dog to behave in a manner that is more likely to get the dog harmed or killed when released into the real world.

[Lhancelot]

Originally Posted by fash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only way to change that low-level "thinking" is to change the pattern: you need to see members of that demographic not looking like villains (or anything else threatening) before your blood pressure will stop rising the moment you see one of those people.

Of course, now you've conditioned the pavlovian dog to behave in a manner that is more likely to get the dog harmed or killed when released into the real world.

That's the problem, it's not so black and white.

Unrealistic to believe an entire demographic of people will behave a certain way, whether it be villainous or chivalrous. This is simply impossible.

That's the problem with people though, they see the narrative of other people as they want and can paint the reasons behind what they see as they want.

I agree though, for peoples minds and hearts to change regarding deepseated hatred or distrust of other races they have to see with their own eyes that these people are actually people too and there's no need to demonize or dehumanize them.

I am a realist and too cynical to think racism will ever go away it's simply too large of a part of humanity to ever leave us. Humans by nature are cruel and do sadistic things to other humans and this behavior will always continue the cycle of man on man violence.

Humans always find a reason to hate one another, and racism is just one of countless props to justify violence on other humans.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's also imagine a certain demographic is 5x more likely to commit violent crimes. Eventually, after experiencing this firsthand and seeing evidence of this in your life, your body/brain has learned "this demographic = a violent crime is more likely to occur".
...
Of course, now you've conditioned the pavlovian dog to behave in a manner that is more likely to get the dog harmed or killed when released into the real world.

Like I said before, you can say "this stuff is hard to fix I give up", or you can say "it's hard to fix but it's worth trying even so."

Also I think you're vastly over-imagining "more likely to get the dog harmed or killed". The violent crime rate is like 386 in 100,000 (ie. less than one in a thousand), and your own risk is likely far lower because those victims are disproportionately poor/minority, and include rape victims which are disproportionately female. Since I don't know your exact gender/race/social class I'll do rough math and quarter (and round) that to one in ten thousand.

Now, how often would having a racist expectation of people help you avoid being assaulted/murdered? Only some subset of the times the attacker is a stranger right? But ... "among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known ... 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims", So you're looking at only some of 1/4 in 10,000.

TLDR; Even if some minorities have been shown to have a greater rate of violence (a natural consequence of their disproportionate historical poor treatment), there still is no meaningful difference to your safety from not being a racist.

[fash]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said before, you can say "this stuff is hard to fix I give up", or you can say "it's hard to fix but it's worth trying even so."

Not sure why you'd characterize what I said as giving up. My point is don't make matters worse by doubling down on what we know causes more racial tension. We need to work towards improving the problems in our societies.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also I think you're vastly over-imagining "more likely to get the dog harmed or killed". The violent crime rate is like 386 in 100,000 (ie. less than one in a thousand), and your own risk is likely far lower because those victims are disproportionately poor/minority, and include rape victims which are disproportionately female.

Well, yea.. But I care about the safety of the poor and women.

People who live in a swply city neighborhood in a gated community aren't affected nearly as much. We're very progressive and ostensibly love the swarthy minorities, yet they are nowhere to be seen outside of the street with taxpayer-subsidized low-income housing. Try to think about the middle and working class people living in diverse areas where they are more likely to fall victim to cultural enrichment. Would you really want to untrain their pattern recognition that keeps them out of harms way?

Btw, those numbers ("less than one in a thousand") are off by an order of magnitude.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known ... 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims", So you're looking at only some of 1/4 in 10,000.

TLDR; Even if some minorities have been shown to have a greater rate of violence (a natural consequence of their disproportionate historical poor treatment), there still is no meaningful difference to your safety from not being a racist.

Let's assume, as you said, 70%+ of homicides were committed by offenders known to the victim. Members of a certain demographic, which is only 5% of the total US population, commits nearly 50% of the murders. Do you really want more people to get to know that 5%? Changing the majority population's aversion to that 5% is well... rather evil. Even if their ancestors did historically treat minorities poorly, there is no justice in punishing people who aren't responsible for the bad decisions.

[Maner]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like I said before, you can say "this stuff is hard to fix I give up", or you can say "it's hard to fix but it's worth trying even so."

Also I think you're vastly over-imagining "more likely to get the dog harmed or killed". The violent crime rate is like 386 in 100,000 (ie. less than one in a thousand), and your own risk is likely far lower because those victims are disproportionately poor/minority, and include rape victims which are disproportionately female. Since I don't know your exact gender/race/social class I'll do rough math and quarter (and round) that to one in ten thousand.

Now, how often would having a racist expectation of people help you avoid being assaulted/murdered? Only some subset of the times the attacker is a stranger right? But ... "among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known ... 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims", So you're looking at only some of 1/4 in 10,000.

TLDR; Even if some minorities have been shown to have a greater rate of violence (a natural consequence of their disproportionate historical poor treatment), there still is no meaningful difference to your safety from not being a racist.

You're same logic can be used to prove police involved killings and abuse are even rarer than the black violent crime rate yet this movement and people like you push that it's a widespread problem and an irrational fear of the police is a proper response. Black people killed by cops is in direct proportion to black violent crime rates which are 12x higher than white violent crime rates. You are bitching about cause and effect, you want the cops to stop focusing on black communities then fix the crime problems in those communities.

The FBI also shows that a white perso is 30x more likely to be killed by a black person than a black person is to be killed by a white. It's great that you accept some things from the FBI but completely ignore everything else

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're same logic can be used to prove police involved killings and abuse are even rarer than the black violent crime rate yet this movement and people like you push that it's a widespread problem and an irrational fear of the police is a proper response. Black people killed by cops is in direct proportion to black violent crime rates which are 12x higher than white violent crime rates. You are bitching about cause and effect, you want the cops to stop focusing on black communities then fix the crime problems in those communities.

The FBI also shows that a white perso is 30x more likely to be killed by a black person than a black person is to be killed by a white. It's great that you accept some things from the FBI but completely ignore everything else

I wasn't ignoring anything, what I was saying was that practically speaking your risk of violent crime is already very low, and then the odds of you acting racist towards all black people all the time and having it someday save from violent crime are truly incredibly low.

Yes, the violent crime rate of African-Americans is high. No that is not an unfix-able problem, nor is the only solution to be racist.

[skarlorn]

Uh the wire actually dissolved the last of my institutionalized racism so I agree with loramin

[Pokesan]

brings a tear to my eye to see loramin learning the dance. ah, to be young again...

*sniffle*

[AzzarTheGod]

Originally Posted by Pokesan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

brings a tear to my eye to see loramin learning the dance. ah, to be young again...

*sniffle*

lmao

[Ninjaskeelz]

I'd imagine sometimes, just sometimes.. people don't care or judge other people based upon their political stances. Republican and Democrat are two sides of the same coin after all. Truth is the answer to our problems lies in the middle, rather than on the left or the right.