Necro, how do you not choose Iksar?

[Teppler]

And on raids how are you not gonna have regrowth + SLN too? Most groups you'll have access to regrowth also with how prevalent and useful shaman are to high level content.

[iruinedyourday]

I would argue that dark elves look cooler, but what diff does it make when your end goal is to hold a goose skull on a staff in a world where there are no birds. yuck.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by ddxdy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hard to compare, AoN is a purely fashionquest item that everyone desires.

Did you actually just call the only instant click item in the game that doesn't require a target, shrinks large races, manipulates faction, is usuable from inventory by any class at level one, and imparts no negative effects on the user 'purely fashionquest'?

Do you know nothing about this game?

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by Teppler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No need to dumb down the debate.

Shaman have gone through the very same thing when talking about the benefits of Troll regen at 60 when they have Torpor. I think it's the same. The regen is useful, most useful on raids, but outside that, kinda marginal.

You're arguing that necromancers don't even need extra regen to counteract lich because they don't really need mana because there's a drop from Veeshan's Peak with a 13.5 second cast time that slowly restores hp for no mana and clickable nuke rings that drop from the boss of a zone that hasn't been released yet?

The fact that you're comparing racial regen on an necromancer running demi lich to a torpor shaman and calling it marginal tells us that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Play necromancers running demi lich both with and without iksar regen and then come back and tell us what you've learned.

[mrshzzit]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're arguing that necromancers don't even need extra regen to counteract lich because they don't really need mana because there's a drop from Veeshan's Peak with a 13.5 second cast time that slowly restores hp for no mana and clickable nuke rings that drop from the boss of a zone that hasn't been released yet?

The fact that you're comparing racial regen on an necromancer running demi lich to a torpor shaman and calling it marginal tells us that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Play necromancers running demi lich both with and without iksar regen and then come back and tell us what you've learned.

14 regen sitting at 60 is nothing. And you seem pretty angry.

[Synthlol]

Originally Posted by mrshzzit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you seem pretty angry.

Not sure how you got anger, but feel free to make up whatever tone you like when you read my posts.

Originally Posted by mrshzzit [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

18 regen sitting at 60 is nothing.

Whatever you say, bud.

[williestargell]

AoN is not 100% fashion quest...only 99%

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're arguing that necromancers don't even need extra regen to counteract lich because they don't really need mana because there's a drop from Veeshan's Peak with a 13.5 second cast time that slowly restores hp for no mana and clickable nuke rings that drop from the boss of a zone that hasn't been released yet?

The fact that you're comparing racial regen on an necromancer running demi lich to a torpor shaman and calling it marginal tells us that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

Play necromancers running demi lich both with and without iksar regen and then come back and tell us what you've learned.

Allow me to challenge you to tell me what you can do with your iksar necro that you can't do with another necro. What camp opens up to iksars?

The talk about VP gear is just referring to how useful racial regen is when a necro is maxed out.

Demi lich and torpor shaman have a lot of similarities in the sense they both have among the fastest mana regen in the game and efficient and quick ways to heal themselves making slow hp regen, marginal.

Plz refrain from insults, try to stick to debate.

[Daldaen]

What can an Iksar Necro do that a gnome Necro cannot.

An Iksar Necro with 10th Ring and Z-Heart can AFK with Demi Lich on, and sit down, and not die. A non-Iksar would die under the same circumstances.

An Iksar Necro can receive 0 buffs at a raid or arrive late, never have to engage mobs and get on aggro list, and twitch without losing any HP at all by using the above two items.

A maxed out Necromancer still requires targets either via Holgresh Beads/Stalking Probes (meaning you can't have a pet) or a mob which isn't magic immune that they may cast upon to click their staff or ring. In down times between pulls or raid attempts, when twitch efficiency is key to getting clerics ready to go again, an Iksar will be able to twitch without wasting someone's mana on heals or a slot in a bard group.

Demi Lich isn't similar to Torpor shaman. Demi Lich is a constant ticking down. Canni is cast, and selected when it's cast. You can click off, remem, and recast Demi but that's tedious and inefficient. Regeneration benefits Necromancers the most of any class because they should always be operating under Lich and therefore always losing HP. This makes slow HP regen ANYTHING BUT marginal. Thats the most important stat you could have. It determines how frequently you need to waste mana healing yourself.

The means by which a Necromancer heals themself are either lifetaps or leach DoTs. Unfortunately both are inefficient means of DPS. Necro DoTs range from 6.7-4 DMG/Mana (looking at Splurt, Pyro, Cessation, Plague), whereas the leach DoTs are barely over 2.2 DMG/Mana. Basically they are half as efficient as the other DoTs. Meaning you only want to drop your damage efficiency, when you need heals. Iksars need to heal less and therefore are able to utilize more efficient means of damage. Whether that's more charms, more DoTs, more mobs being root rotted, etc.

This efficiency allows a Necromancer that is an Iksar to likely clear a whole other room in HS that a non-Iksar couldn't have because they were spending too much of their mana healing themselves back up.

[Teppler]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What can an Iksar Necro do that a gnome Necro cannot.

An Iksar Necro with 10th Ring and Z-Heart can AFK with Demi Lich on, and sit down, and not die. A non-Iksar would die under the same circumstances.

An Iksar Necro can receive 0 buffs at a raid or arrive late, never have to engage mobs and get on aggro list, and twitch without losing any HP at all by using the above two items.

I didn't ask that. I asked what camp opens up to an Iksar Necro that you can't do with another necro. If you're going to talk about 10th ring and Z-heart, what use do you have for extra regen when there's items that allow you to life tap for free?

A maxed out Necromancer still requires targets either via Holgresh Beads/Stalking Probes (meaning you can't have a pet) or a mob which isn't magic immune that they may cast upon to click their staff or ring. In down times between pulls or raid attempts, when twitch efficiency is key to getting clerics ready to go again, an Iksar will be able to twitch without wasting someone's mana on heals or a slot in a bard group.

On raids with long encounters it's a small advantage, sure. However when soloing and grouping high end content there's always mobs to lifetap and the dps coming from it helps. There's good use to Necro's lifetaps too in the sense that they are very hard to resist and something like deflux is a very quick cast so you can spam it to nuke down mobs quick.

Demi Lich isn't similar to Torpor shaman. Demi Lich is a constant ticking down. Canni is cast, and selected when it's cast. You can click off, remem, and recast Demi but that's tedious and inefficient. Regeneration benefits Necromancers the most of any class because they should always be operating under Lich and therefore always losing HP. This makes slow HP regen ANYTHING BUT marginal. Thats the most important stat you could have. It determines how frequently you need to waste mana healing yourself.

There's a few similarities and there's a few differences. To say it's plainly the same is as wrong as saying they are plainly different. Demi lich doesn't have to constantly tick down as much as you can regulate Canni by not spamming it. I'd argue the mana you refer to as "wasting" is a marginal number when you factor in the usefulness of doing damage with your lifetaps. A good necro knows how to make the most of his lifetaps.

The means by which a Necromancer heals themself are either lifetaps or leach DoTs. Unfortunately both are inefficient means of DPS. Necro DoTs range from 6.7-4 DMG/Mana (looking at Splurt, Pyro, Cessation, Plague), whereas the leach DoTs are barely over 2.2 DMG/Mana. Basically they are half as efficient as the other DoTs. Meaning you only want to drop your damage efficiency, when you need heals. Iksars need to heal less and therefore are able to utilize more efficient means of damage. Whether that's more charms, more DoTs, more mobs being root rotted, etc.

Do you factor in how great they are at not getting resisted? How fast and thus convenient something like Deflux is?

In a lot of situations high end necros won't need to use long DOTs. Think groups or finishing off charmed mobs.

This efficiency allows a Necromancer that is an Iksar to likely clear a whole other room in HS that a non-Iksar couldn't have because they were spending too much of their mana healing themselves back up.

If the necro is solo, what is the Iksar finishing charmed mobs off with? Good necro's are getting mobs to the point where deflux is going to take them down. If you're clearing all the rooms in HS north, you're killing 20+ mobs within a 15 minuteish time frame. Around 20 deflux in that time frame will keep you healed.