Class XP Penalties

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is the XP penalty is just stupid, it doesn't matter even slightly once you've hit 60 (50 originally.) All it does is delay your trip to max level, once you're there it is nothing. If your class/race is superior to a class/race competing for the same role, the delay doesn't matter at all in the end, if your class/race is not superior to competing class(es) then WTF is the penalty for? It is simply stupid shitty design, there is no other way to describe it.

Yeah but the result is that there are far less players taking a hybrid to cap, or even rolling them coincidentally. Agreed it doesn't matter once at cap, but it matters enough to decimate hybrid populations to even reach cap. I don't think a big component to that is simply the class xp hit, but being that it impacts group xp which does the damage. Knowing this, the classes become decimated as they are, few roll them.

And the only way to really offset this problem, is not to "learn to play" (as someone spewed out irrationally) but to completely twink the hybrid so they can play in higher level groups (5+ levels). But even then, pugs are not usually doing gear checks, and even considered a bit stupid to do so. Then if that 5+ group is also twinked, then the hybrid twink still falls short. A dilemma, is it worth twinking a hybrid that much? How many hybrid characters were simply PL'ed up rather than spending huge amounts of plats on gear? Presents problems, and the results are well documented.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by sox7d [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're misinterpreting multi-classing and theurge-like prestige classes. A level 10 character that is 5 druid/5 fighter uses roughly as much exp as a lvl 15 character that is pure or prestiged.

At first when I read your post I thought you were bonkers because in 3.5 every time you level you pick a class. Which class you pick has nothing to do with the experience it took to get that level, so a 5 druid/5 fighter is definitely the same XP as any other level 10, not a level 15.

But then I remembered that 3.5 had two forms of "multi-classing": the way I just described, and then those wacky multi-class rules they introduced at the very end of the edition. I didn't realize that you were talking about those rules because you'd normally call that a 5th level fighter/druid, not a fighter 5/druid 5. But in any case, those were definitely closer to AD&D's multi-classing, as was the Mystic Theurge prestige class, because both give you a way to have a caster/something else, while not having to lose half your caster levels.

Still, my point remains: Everquest was based on a different edition of D&D, so you can't really compare your 3.5 5th level druid/fighter to an EQ ranger or an AD&D druid/fighter (among other things because there were no druid/fighters in AD&D).

[Baldur]

So the class penalties definitely affect the amount of hybrids on the server. I just recently started playing with about 5 other friends at the same time and those that rolled hybrids have since rolled different classes.

And it wasn't because they were harder to play, or they didn't like them, it was because they couldn't keep up with the rest of us that didn't roll hybrids. We try to play together, but don't always, and the hybrids just fell way behind. And it was quicker for them to start a different class than try and keep up.

It really is not fun when you want to play a certain class like a hybrid but the exp penalty causes you to change. All the arguments against removing the class penalties seem a bit weak to me. You can't make the classic timeline argument since we are way past when Velious should have been released. And the slippery slope argument falls short in my book too. Just because you remove class penalties doesn't mean you have to make any other changes that came after Velious. And the feeling of accomplishment argument made me chuckle. I see level 60 SKs and Rangers and think they must be a masochist.

[fiveeauxfour]

Maybe this can be used to gauge population statistics?


http://p1999.dmsimard.com/db/Classes

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by fiveeauxfour [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe this can be used to gauge population statistics?


http://p1999.dmsimard.com/db/Classes

So after 4yrs, there are 28 rangers at lvl cap? hehehe

[fiveeauxfour]

There are 1.6k people who were counted as anonymous. Thus, while discrete numbers might be slightly incorrect, the overall %'s next to everything I do believe are representative.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by fiveeauxfour [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are 1.6k people who were counted as anonymous. Thus, while discrete numbers might be slightly incorrect, the overall %'s next to everything I do believe are representative.

Oh yeah that DB... hides anon etc. But speaking for rangers, there isn't really any reason to go anon, not like for druid. Pretty much any hybrid there is very little reason to turn on anon/rp. I think in most cases 70% of the time anon's will be druids that just aren't into abandoning their camps to port people around for a few plats. 28 rangers and prolly half of them stopped playing years ago to play something else hah

[fiveeauxfour]

A ranger should go anon/rp so that he may rp a warrior.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by fiveeauxfour [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A ranger should go anon/rp so that he may rp a warrior.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by fiveeauxfour [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A ranger should go anon/rp so that he may rp a warrior.

Ranger should be played as a ranger, the class has strengths, even at cap, quite useful in groups. But that's beside the point, there were swarms of hybrids on live, but few here. Anon is pretty pointless for hybrids so it's not a matter of most capped hybrids using anon. It's poor game design that became amplified here, taking away from the classic experience of EQ since the fix hasn't yet been implemented and for years.

I haven't said what the emu devs should do about it, just pointing out the facts. But clearly it's broken.