Taken - Sev

[Sckrilla]

^^Chest speaks the truth. There's no grey area, it's pretty clear. If guilds were punished in the past for the same shit, there is absolutely no reason for Taken to not eat a suspension for this. No FTE, no kill.

[dustysr06]

Has taken been raid suspended ever?...

[Argh]

A warning and not a suspension is in line with former first offense FTE punishment.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A warning and not a suspension is in line with former first offense FTE punishment.

Where was BDA's warning for killing 10% of a Nagafen?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well...AG's FTE wasn't legitimate, so that might have some affect on this. However, Taken did not let the mob reset. Shrug.

The staff has been pretty adamant about telling players to not judge the worthiness of any particular FTE and to instead let them sort it out after the fact. Thus, AG's FTE, good or bad, shouldn't really play a part in the consideration of Taken's actions.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The rule is if it isn't your FTE then you don't touch the mob. There's no caveats, there's no special circumstances governing illegal FTEs. The mob must reset. Period.

Yea, pretty much this.

They were warned the entire time they were pulling Sev too. There is three minutes of chat log where people are telling them that the pull had to be dropped so there could be a new FTE message. They chose to ignore people who are familiar with the rules, and take their chances with a GM decision. Which should never be the case.

You are supposed to ALWAYS respect the FTE shout. No exceptions. Even if you think the other guild is kiting, or cheating, or their pull is illegitimate in some way. You cannot pull it off them because the FTE is not credited to you, and players do not have the power to overrule an FTE message. You have to let them do whatever it is they are going to do with it (which should be to drop the pull if they are smart) and let the GMs handle it. The GMs have ruled on this very clearly in the past. Numerous examples include FE pulling fay off a blatant kite, pulling gore after an FTE snipe (which was wrong and bad), pulling tal off an alleged kite, and engaging CT off another alleged snipe (which turned out not to be the case). In each of these situations, it was made clear that it was wrong to disregard the FTE shout, no matter how illegitimate we thought the pull was.

The correct thing to do on this Sev, was for nobody to pull Sev in. Everyone who was on the agro list should die/FD/camp/gate/coth themselves, whatever they can do to lose agro immediately. And allow a new FTE to go off.

I don't care whether Taken is suspended or not. The rules are clear and I guess technically Taken should be suspended if we're trying to be consistent in rulings. But rulings have not been consistent here lately, and maybe that's just something we have to accept. I do hope this is the last time this lesson needs to be learned. If the FTE doesn't belong to someone in your guild, or someone who you're willing to forfeit all loot to (assuming both parties combined are under the two tracker limit), then you absolutely cannot kill the mob. No exceptions.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Where was BDA's warning for killing 10% of a Nagafen?

He was over 30%. They were wiping clearly. Had Naggy been 10% he would have been running and jumping in would not have been necessary.

I think all guilds should be past the point of warnings for this. Too many suspensions have been handed out already for not respecting FTE shouts. Even class R guilds should have leaders who are aware of the current rules and who can make correct decisions, especially if they want to compete for FFA spawns.

[Rais]

I think it's pretty clear by now that Lostprofits is really Catherine and never left Taken. He finished his GED and added a voice changer to keep his guild. I can understand playing dumb not to get your guild suspended. Yet doing shit over and over with the same person in the leadership role shows there is an issue with this person, and the simple concept of following rules.

[arsenalpow]

That's my issue, consistency. I was on vacation when Sadad got dragged to the table by Derubael and TMO over an issue that was nearly 90 days old that Sirken personally told me was squashed. We engaged a FFA Naggy at 10% when Taken had FTE. Taken wasn't likely to wipe and one of our officers made the call to get some hits in. Unbrella demanded a Nagafen because Taken could have wiped thus preventing a TMO engage. Derubael decided an appropriate punishment was to leverage the class R rotation slot we have for Naggy into being skipped the next time up. I fully disagreed with the punishment on multiple levels.

Taken killing Sev was so much more blatant. I'm fucking shocked that the staff made this ruling with multiple incidences of precedence that have already been resolved. It's not consistent at all. Why should BDA lose a class R target over an FFA encounter and Taken gets a warning? What's the logical precedence to determine that? If the answer is "because the staff said so" then expect this type of fallout every fucking time because when the staff isn't consistent there will be questions and cries of favoritism.

[doyoueventrainbro]

Why does Catherin get to skate again?

She gets caught auto-firing and doesn't get banned. Third party software is like the BIGGEST NONO on this fucking server.

He directs her guild to kill a mob they do not have FTE on, and they get a warning.

So, two of the biggest NONOs on this server, two things that will get a person or guild suspended / banned, are being overlooked.

Why is Catherin allowed to do whatever the fuck it wants?