Project 1999 PvP Open Broadcast Discussion *Rescheduled*

[Drone]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sweetbaby's from Blue, he understands the "joys" of variance. As he and heartbrand state, variance favors the poopsockers and forces that can log on at any time of day. If you know within 30min when a mob will spawn, you can plan for that. If you don't know when things will spawn (variance), you'll need to be able to field a force at any time of day to respond to the spawn. I'm sure Nihilum is best equipped to respond to spawns at any time of day. If you can't muster the force at the correct time of day when you know when that will be, what makes you think you'll be able to muster it when you don't know when it'll happen?

Like Stasis said, apples to oranges.

It isn't FTE on red, it's pvp. There's no pressure on Nihilum's opposition to mobilize a raid force whenever a target spawns in hopes of outracing the zerg. They can simply set aside a few nights a week where all their folks can log in, kill nihi trackers, raid some trash, and maybe get lucky with a boss spawning.

When a situation like that occurs Nihilum either a) has enough available members at that particular time to mobilize a raid force and engage the enemy, or b) for whatever reasons, maybe unluckily, they can't get enough folks to win over their target.

Both scenarios are good for competition, which is what you want if fostering a fun and interesting end game on the pvp server is a goal (ie more than one night of pvp a week).

The pressure would be on Nihilum to mobilize a force in every single instance, if they want to continue to nab every target. As it stands, they don't have to worry about batphoning, their members can look forward to logging in only one day a week and grabbing everything, then logging out (ie there goes the neighborhood).

Sure the current system allows both sides to plan an engagement, but from the perspective of a smaller force variance is guerilla warfare to the current system's smashing your dick against the brick wall of the British.

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Again, it's not about punishing Nihilum for doing an excellent job. It's about figuring out a system where maintaining that topdog status isn't unnecessarily easy.

[Elderan]

Originally Posted by Drone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Like Stasis said, apples to oranges.

It isn't FTE on red, it's pvp. There's no pressure on Nihilum's opposition to mobilize a raid force whenever a target spawns in hopes of outracing the zerg. They can simply set aside a few nights a week where all their folks can log in, kill nihi trackers, raid some trash, and maybe get lucky with a boss spawning.

When a situation like that occurs Nihilum either a) has enough available members at that particular time to mobilize a raid force and engage the enemy, or b) for whatever reasons, maybe unluckily, they can't get enough folks to win over their target.

Both scenarios are good for competition, which is what you want if fostering a fun and interesting end game on the pvp server is a goal (ie more than one night of pvp a week).

The pressure would be on Nihilum to mobilize a force in every single instance, if they want to continue to nab every target. As it stands, they don't have to worry about batphoning, their members can look forward to logging in only one day a week and grabbing everything.

Sure the current system allows both sides to plan an engagement, but from the perspective of a smaller force variance is guerilla warfare to the current system's smashing your dick against the brick wall of the British.

Again, it's not about punishing Nihilum for doing an excellent job. It's about figuring out a system where maintaining that topdog status isn't unnecessarily easy.

Again, you guys are focused on the wrong thing to help the server. Need to focus on NON raid activity, this will bring the best results.

Dont cater to those flame outs who have proven they wont ever be happy. Red needs to change its perception and weed out the griefers or at least bring in good people without mental disorders to counter them.

Variance brings in NO new players, might lose some though.

Changes that will actually bring in NEW players that red desperately needs.

- Group exp bonus
- Safe zones
- Remove hybird exp penalty
- 2 boxing ( I have been debating on this one a long time. Red needs something unique to bring more people in and this would do it.)

Do these 4 things and you will add 200 people nightly to the server population. Add variance and you will most likely lose more people then you gain.

[Drone]

not sure why trying to improve the pvp experience is bad for the pvp server

and next time you quote me, don't filter out the inspirational dwarf head copy/paste kk

[Elderan]

Originally Posted by Drone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not sure why trying to improve the pvp experience is bad for the pvp server

and next time you quote me, don't filter out the inspirational dwarf head copy/paste kk

There is no point improving pvp unless you can bring in the people to support pvp. This is why I have stayed away from resist/item suggested changes.

Got to understand that EQ PVP as a whole was a limited player base. At EQ1 peak there were 500k active players, of that 25k were PVP which represented 5% of the EQ player base. So if blue has 1k nightly players then you cannot expect more then 10% or 100ish players pvpers on red. You need to entice people to come to play red even if their primary love isn't pvp.

There is a small group of pvpers who have been going from server to server for years now. The VZTZ LOZ groups. These are the people you don't want to cater to as most are burned out at this point anyway and would never last long term.

Red needs to attract a lot of blues over population. There needs to be a reason for people who are tired of blue or quit there to move to red. The ideas I mentioned above would be very enticing for a lot of those people.

[Drone]

I wouldn't think the devs would want the red server to just be the server folks go to when they're tired of blue. They should want both servers to be as successful as possible as unique experiences.

New players want to know that the game will still be fun at higher levels. That's why I spend time thinking about and arguing for the implementation of variance on red. It means a higher frequency of those badass epic battles. The prospect of participating in that kind of gameplay is incredibly attractive. Of course it's the content of classic eq that draws people in, but the opportunity to engage both npc's and pc's is a fun one. There's interest in that, in fun.

On other points we're largely in agreement. Group xp bonus and removal of hybrid xp penalties are totally great ideas. In addition, I'd love to see item loot implemented as it stimulates low/mid-level involvement in both the economy (which would actually exist again for low/mid-level gear) and funtimes pvp (get a group together and show that twink that there can be consequences for trying to flex you out).

However, I'm not as keen on safe zones and boxing. Safe zones maybe could work if very limited, but again, red and blue should be distinct experiences, and with guard assist it doesn't seem necessary for folks very ginger to eq pvp. As for boxing, it just seems like it'd be tricky to implement it on red and not blue. Additionally, it wouldn't pair well with group xp bonus, could become very anti-social, but idk.

[Elderan]

New players want to know that the game will still be fun at higher levels. That's why I spend time thinking about and arguing for the implementation of variance on red. It means a higher frequency of those badass epic battles. The prospect of participating in that kind of gameplay is incredibly attractive. Of course it's the content of classic eq that draws people in, but the opportunity to engage both npc's and pc's is a fun one. There's interest in that, in fun.

The vast majority of blue players despise variance. It would be a HUGE negative to them if it were to be implemented here. With velious coming the number of raid targets are going to increase 4 fold. Many are on factions where one guild logically cannot and would not want to kill them all. This alone will open up almost as many raid targets as kunark has to other guilds.

On other points we're largely in agreement. Group xp bonus and removal of hybrid xp penalties are totally great ideas. In addition, I'd love to see item loot implemented as it stimulates low/mid-level involvement in both the economy (which would actually exist again for low/mid-level gear) and funtimes pvp (get a group together and show that twink that there can be consequences for trying to flex you out).

Item loot would just be terrible for this server. It would force people to not want to go anywhere near pvp unless they are in ganking mode.

However, I'm not as keen on safe zones and boxing. Safe zones maybe could work if very limited, but again, red and blue should be distinct experiences, and with guard assist it doesn't seem necessary for folks very ginger to eq pvp. As for boxing, it just seems like it'd be tricky to implement it on red and not blue. Additionally, it wouldn't pair well with group xp bonus, could become very anti-social, but idk.

Safe zones would allow people a break from pvp when they dont really desire it. I would keep them limited though I agree. We dont want to turn this into a blue server but we need to compromise to bring more people in.

I am torn a 2 boxing. I personally hate seeing it on raids and groups but it alone would offer a very unique experience to people on p99.

[Drone]

Originally Posted by Elderan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The vast majority of blue players despise variance. It would be a HUGE negative to them if it were to be implemented here. With velious coming the number of raid targets are going to increase 4 fold. Many are on factions where one guild logically cannot and would not want to kill them all. This alone will open up almost as many raid targets as kunark has to other guilds.

Firstly,

Originally Posted by Drone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't think the devs would want the red server to just be the server folks go to when they're tired of blue. They should want both servers to be as successful as possible as unique experiences.

Fun and interesting pvp is its own promotion on a pvp server (though, of course, that's not all the promotion it needs atm, we're in agreement there). More big fights means more awesome vids. Variance is just a word that means more big fights on a pvp server.

I'm worried about Velious, without encouraged competition pre-release, Nihilum could very well just re-stabilize after a couple months which may end up meaning a bigger ghost town.

[heals4reals]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And how did they all log on and know to be at trak hours in advance? Was it because they were able to coordinate three days ahead of time since they knew exactly when trak would spawn? Naw naw couldn't of been that at all right?

Actually we were farming juggs when he popped on trak and we rallied the forces. Thanks for trying. +1 for variance yall.

[heals4reals]

Elderan your posts are very annoying. You joined this server 4 months after kunark launched got plvled to join nihilum and are only seen online during the 1 day a week raids.

You dont know who is who or whats good for server. Stop posting.

[Elderan]

Originally Posted by Drone [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Firstly,

Fun and interesting pvp is its own promotion on a pvp server (though, of course, that's not all the promotion it needs atm, we're in agreement there). More big fights means more awesome vids. Variance is just a word that means more big fights on a pvp server.

I'm worried about Velious, without encouraged competition pre-release, Nihilum could very well just re-stabilize after a couple months which may end up meaning a bigger ghost town.

Variance would be smaller fights.

Trak pops at 4am. Bat phone goes out, Nihilum has 20 online in 15 min. Competition has 20 online lets say.

Trak spawns at 10pm. The competition has 45 sitting waiting in seb. Nihilum brings 35 people. There are now a 80 person pvp about to go down. This example actually happened.

You tell me which one is bigger...