******Official politics thread ******

[Patriam1066]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't put faith in the government as it currently. I put faith people to understand their self interest in the long run. Things get better. But they never seem to get that way by listening to old well-off conservatives that we should continue things as usual.

Charlie Chaplin said it best

We never used to talk about how America starts wars all around the world. That we are empire. That neoliberalism is a failure. That "socialism" -- meaning democratic socialism -- is a viable alternative. This is all new.

We are in an adjustment period in some sense. We haven't changed as much as we would like to think from the medieval times where our leaders didn't understand economics yet controlled everyone lives as if they did. With their myths about "things just have to work this way -- the treasury needs gold! -- and all the mercantile ineffective policies we followed for many years.

Classical Liberal Capitalism is just another stepping stone. It is not "the end of history."
Zuckerberg's favorite book is: the End of Power. And I don't think he is just cynically recommending it to cover-up his immense power. I think our leaders have been getting nervous for a long time about the newer generations. They got the Hippies under control with T.V. and really good paying jobs for what they were -- But they couldn't keep the payments to the populice up while continuing obscene profit.

What happened to Greece? Remember how hopeless and stupid all those lefty people were for thinking they can get "free stuff"? Well turns out they can. They just get it from the rich. And then the west calls them terrorists to cover up their shame ideology about how necessary "austerity" (stealing from the poor) is.

Economies work better with less rich people in them. With the bar rises and millions of ordinary people are buying things everyday. You know we actually have about the same portion of world wealth we did in the times of the post war economy? We just have that wealth concentrated in Multi-National Corporations based in America...in other words -- its not a fairly tale or a poney that there is enough money in the economy get a regular job and support a family. That was ideology sold to people as these 54 corporations sucked all the resources out of the working class. In fact -- it should be easy as ever with the concept of general plenty in full swing.

Poverty -- in this country -- is manufactured.

Flying out to Greece (Yunan) today. I will let you know what a poor socialist shit hole it is upon my return

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am unwilling to lobotomize myself for the purpose of placating conscience with false premises and broken logic as much as I am uninterested in entertaining ideological consistency for its own sake.

Penal labor is specifically allowed by the 13th amendment and reviling it as wrong because we feel strongly against slavery is about as sensible as protesting government sanctioned theft (taxation) or infanticide (abortion) on moral grounds.

Compelling to labor those individuals who have transgressed society is fundamentally different from the systematic abduction and enslavement of others for personal gain in the same way that shooting an eight year old child is different from dismembering a 6month old fetus in the womb or how stealing a person's TV to fund a life of lawlessness is different from taking a portion of their earnings to manage society. If you don't see the differences, then nuance is somewhere beyond your reach. In fact, there is a common reason across each of those comparisons that makes one less repugnant than the other.

lots of things are allowed. that doesn't make them moral. i hope someday you'll understand the difference.

[Wonkie]

trying to bait a morality derail to be annoying in :3

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

sorry pokes, I'm not gonna defend a argument I didn't make and don't endorse ^^

im glad you understand its indefensible!

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am unwilling to lobotomize myself for the purpose of placating conscience with false premises and broken logic as much as I am uninterested in entertaining ideological consistency for its own sake.

Penal labor is specifically allowed by the 13th amendment and reviling it as wrong because we feel strongly against slavery is about as sensible as protesting government sanctioned theft (taxation) or infanticide (abortion) on moral grounds.

Compelling to labor those individuals who have transgressed society is fundamentally different from the systematic abduction and enslavement of others for personal gain in the same way that shooting an eight year old child is different from dismembering a 6month old fetus in the womb or how stealing a person's TV to fund a life of lawlessness is different from taking a portion of their earnings to manage society. If you don't see the differences, then nuance is somewhere beyond your reach. In fact, there is a common reason across each of those comparisons that makes one less repugnant than the other.

How would forced labor help prisoners better themselves in a hope of reform since reform, rehabilitation is the expressed action of the prison system? Bear mind that most prisons are for-profit institutions in the US.

[mickmoranis]

Americanism is the only god damn goverment that is both moral, and promotes healthy evolutionary growth.

Socialism is moral but it hinders our natural growth, it is like saying "lets limit the posibilities so that everyone can be safe and happy"

While americanism allows the strong to survive and the weak to die out, while still allowing anyone who WANTS to do whatever they want, to do whatever they want.

The only true moral choice is americanism

If it is unconstitutional, then its not allowed, if it is, then it is.

Its simple. Segrigation, abuse, invading privacy, all the shit that socialists are afraid of reguarding capitalism, is fucking protected under the constitution and the bill of rights.

ITS VERY IRONIC that those same people want to shore up those documents because they think they're making life unsafer for all.

Socialism = authoritarianism no matter which way you smoke it.
Americanism = god damn mother fucking freedom.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

discipline, work ethic, pride, conformity and respect are all integral components of success and independence, which most men not only desire, but expect and often demand. if you are content ceding your liberty to another and circumstances align such that it is a viable option for your life, then by all means, embrace that symbiosis. That not the case however for most criminals whose actions are an unambiguous assertion of their right to decide. Learning that consequence is the many-faced bride of action is more crucial to social development than simple savagery in a state of nature.

As I said in my original post, prisoners would be compensated for their labors, but also charged the cost of their imprisonment. Upon release, they would receive any excess. This vests the prisoner's interest in the performance of his prison as well as that of his fellow inmates by extension. That is profound because it fosters shame and accountability, which amplify advancement in the areas outlined in the paragraph above.

It should also be said that it is immoral to foist the costs of their correction upon others who have willfully even if grudgingly surrendered to and abided in the social contract. Neither is there a pragmatic argument for diverting investment from efficient resources to volatile or even less efficient ones.

13th amendment doesn't say anything about the prisoner having to incur the cost of their impriaonment, tho'.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are only two moral forms of government: totalitarianism and constitutional minarchism, both preferrably implemented by weaponized AI systems.

Cutey patooty broke down here.

The hell's goin' on 'round here? Have we all resigned ourselves to the potential of ww3 being started by the US? Trump pulled out of the Iran agreement, so what's the over-under on years until we invade Iran? I'll put money on less than 2.

[Wonkie]

Originally Posted by skarlorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did any of u ever try to tell me about Jordan Peterson?

If you aren't listening to this dude it's time to get started.

he's not a great thinker but does do a great job keeping middle intelligence males fighting on behalf of their superior(visible abs) owners.

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[JurisDictum]

His psychological points aren't bad. His point that we can't have a mature conversation in the workplace about sexual harassment...

However, his politics are just as childish as the feminists he criticizes so I find him a bit self-defeating in this regard.