Camping Raid Mobs... gone on long enough ?!

[Skope]

It's not about straw manning, it's about knowing when to put in the effort, for what, and at the appropriate time. Alawenn, I've seen your old guild members drop like flies because of the recent state of raidcamping, and apparently you're not in favor of it either, so why all the hate?

I think we actually see eye to eye on some things, but perhaps we don't on the amount of effort (or lack of it, really) that's going on as of late. I'm not going to miss work to kill naggy, it's not worth it. I'm not going to deprive myself of sleep, it's not worth it. And I'm well aware of that. But the fact is, a lot of these people who are doing it now will realize much the same thing, it's just unfortunate that they'll be driven to quit long before then.

If they can, well that's great for them! But at its current state it's happening by bending and molding the rules (and the guild itself) in order to accomplish things that can be made far easier for everybody (and ESPECIALLY for those who would put in extra effort and time) without having to burn so many damn people out.


EDIT: the issue of kunark and velious and the problems that will unfold are secondary to what the OP and the majority of the past 14 pages have been about, and that's the incessant camping that's going on. I think we're all diverting off-topic.

[rioisk]

Just remember guys. When people from IB flex their e-peen and talk about being the best it actually translates to "we play 24 hours a day and are on raid-alert 24 hours day". You could be the worst player and still have the best gear/see the most content simply from dedication. This means you are giving up doing other more productive/fun things with your life.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just remember guys. When people from IB flex their e-peen and talk about being the best it actually translates to "we play 24 hours a day and are on raid-alert 24 hours day". You could be the worst player and still have the best gear/see the most content simply from dedication. This means you are giving up doing other more productive/fun things with your life.

If you tried hard, I'm sure you could come up with an even more bizarre metaphor for your straw man argument.

The point under discussion here is whether the loot that drops in classic offers an advantage to the people who receive it. Despite attempts to turn that discussion into what's almost as good in the next expansion or who doesn't have a life while they camp it, the answer to that question is yes. Top end guilds with top end loot have an advantage. That's the way this game works.

The reasons some of you think top end loot gets easily replaced in the next expansion are because you never had top end loot in EQ and you played a lot of WoW.

[rioisk]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you tried hard, I'm sure you could come up with an even more bizarre metaphor for your straw man argument.

The point under discussion here is whether the loot that drops in classic offers an advantage to the people who receive it. Despite attempts to turn that discussion into what's almost as good in the next expansion or who doesn't have a life while they camp it, the answer to that question is yes. Top end guilds with top end loot have an advantage. That's the way this game works.

The reasons some of you think top end loot gets easily replaced in the next expansion are because you never had top end loot in EQ and you played a lot of WoW.

You are right--nice use of freshman year philosophy class. Doesn't make what I said any less true. And I think the current rules support and reward this archtype of people without any real justification aside from references to "fair".

I think fair would be FFA because this would make it so time commitment isn't the only determinant of access to raid content/gear. I think the ability to thwart other guilds attempts or outDPS them SHOULD be a factor because in the absence of rules this is what would happen. I think the current rules just distort incentives and favor a certain kind of player. It isn't real competition just a test of willpower to spend the most time on the game.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are right--nice use of freshman year philosophy class. Doesn't make what I said any less true. And I think the current rules support and reward this archtype of people without any real justification aside from references to "fair".

I think fair would be FFA because this would make it so time commitment isn't the only determinant of access to raid content/gear. I think the ability to thwart other guilds attempts or outDPS them SHOULD be a factor because in the absence of rules this is what would happen. I think the current rules just distort incentives and favor a certain kind of player. It isn't real competition just a test of willpower to spend the most time on the game.

Yeah, we get it. If we play better than you, we clearly have no life.

Bring on the FFA. We'll continue to beat you and you'll have new reasons and excuses for why you suck at this game. It'll be fun for everyone.

[Skope]

To phrase it in words that a select few of us will understand:

If you keep poopsocking, you're bound to run out of socks.

[apio]

i like to think of EQ as a game where skill actually has a big impact on the end result. Most raids in Kunark and Velious were not really about the gear you had but about having the right strategies to the encounters, and about the execution of those strategies.

As Planar armor / random trash drops are freely available to more than just 2 guilds, i dont believe there will be any huge advantage for any guild thats raiding at the moment. It doesnt really matter who gets the Big Four (or 7 if you count draco, maestro and phinny).

If anything, those guilds that are so huge right now (because the only way you see a boss mob is by joining exactly those guilds) will run into big problems during kunark, when theyre trying to "gear up" 50 or more people for the upcoming expansion. This will lead to the same result it did back on live, downsizing, for a variety of reasons. if thats not possible the only thing the leading guilds will be able to do to stop smaller guilds from progressing faster than they are, is to monopolize the content and "cockblock" other guilds. this is also what happened on Live, btw !

But then again, as a few people already pointed out, cockblocking and gearing up is really not the issue in the transition from Classic to Kunark.

but thats just my 2cp

[Skope]

Rioisk, I think you have it backwards. If FFA was enabled (with minor rules) it would allow for those with the most amount of time and effort to benefit, rather than those who are drawing themselves away from EQ by leaving their PCs on and not touching their character for 3-4 days. In my eyes, and the eyes of many, that's fair and that's how it should be.

[nicemace]

what i find silly is you guys are saying you dont care about these 'best' items, yet you care that IB and DA camp mobs.

so what youre saying is you dont want the loot, but you want the raids... so you can get the loot.

if you dont care about any of the god/boss drops, why dont ya just leave it to IB and DA to do their thing?

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by nicemace [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

what i find silly is you guys are saying you dont care about these 'best' items, yet you care that IB and DA camp mobs.

so what youre saying is you dont want the loot, but you want the raids... so you can get the loot.

I can only speak for myself here but I just want to experience at least 1 Inny raid and 1 CT raid before Kunark is released. They can camp all they want.
We've called timers on guilds before and ended up getting the kill by presuring them. It will happen again. They wipe on raids same as anyone else.

With so many active casters in my guild currently I don't realistically expect to get any CT or Inny loot before Kunark goes live and I'm fine with that. I have all the Insidious armor I need, same goes for resist gear aside from a couple BD items I'm too lazy to farm for and too broke to shell out for at the moment. But it's not impeding me in any way. When I'm not on a raid I'm leveling alts nd having tons of fun doing it.

So, anyway, in my case at least your comment does not stand true.