Remove Hybrid Penalty

[Tomatoking]

yea killing an extra couple mobs really equals out the -60%

hybrids? haha , soon as a hybrid joins my group exp tanks to shit

oh yea hybrids do no dmg too

[Rettii]

Originally Posted by Tr0llb0rn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never going to happen Sektor, you are asking for a non-classic change.

What CAN happen , is move the xp bonus from a solo flat xp bonus to a group xp bonus. So then maybe people WILL group with "your dad's SK".

Or just agree with rettiwalk as he solos his druid to 60 with that big solo xp bonus and people avoid your dad's SK like the plauge because there is nothing in it (group xp bonus) for them.

I'm not saying to remove xp bonus, im saying to put it where it will help the community and help those that need it the most (group dependent classes). And thats as a grouping xp bonus.

Current solo flat rate xp bonus only helps Rettiwalk (and my druid alt...)

But w/e. As always these forums get clouded over in a mist of bullshit.

Keep xp bonus as is (solo flat rate based), i'll continue to be one of the few level 60 melees and you all can continue crying why rettiwalk and the other solo casters dont group you. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please keep your false propaganda out of these serious threads. My Druid is level 54 because I refuse to solo. I grouped 50-54 then quit. Since my return I've been playing a necro duo or shaman grouped. I care about server population and server integrity.

[Tr0llb0rn]

Originally Posted by Rettii [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been playing a necro duo.

I rest my case.

Greedy casters duo to avoid the pet-eating-xp penalty and leave the melees to rot on the vine.

So transparent.

Need xp bonus only in the form of group bonus (the larger the group, the higher the bonus) to avoid the above.

[BelenosGotHeals]

Originally Posted by SamwiseRed [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't agree with hybrid penalty roll a warrior.

That being said, I have never/will never refuse to group with someone because of their class choice, as long as they fit with the classes already there. Just play the game

[Dacuk]

My two contributions to this thread:

1) its great to see dev interaction on the PVP forums
2) In a pimp group on my 55 ogre sk, i will get abt 4-5% xp an hour. Given that I maybe spend 2 hrs grouping a night on average, plus xp loss from a few pvp deaths each week, I'm anticipating hitting level 60 around May/June. Well actually no I wont, I will probably switch to a non hybrid in a month or so because this grinding is so god awful painful.

PS.. WTB YT!!

[Rettii]

Originally Posted by Tr0llb0rn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I rest my case.

Greedy casters duo to avoid the pet-eating-xp penalty and leave the melees to rot on the vine.

So transparent.

Need xp bonus only in the form of group bonus (the larger the group, the higher the bonus) to avoid the above.

I grouped with a paladin and bard in dungeon the last two days.

I also watched Nihilum train a new player to the server who happens to be a paladin at least 4 times in two different zones. Please let me hear your thoughts now badtr0ll.

[Rettii]

Thanks for trying Badtr0ll/Arzak/Sundawg.

[stormlord]

People here should also not forget that when people reach max level the experience penalty no longer applies. This was something that was mentioned in the producers letter:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

Here is my previous post here where I explain what I know:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...997#post827997

I think that they overestimated the power of the extra abilities given to hybrids. The primary reason I think this is somewhat related to the class population link in my signature. What that shows is that the group-based classes succeed in reaching max level much more than hybrids. So for every instance of a character being created at level 1, if they're a hybrid then they're less likely to reach cap. If you think about it, it's not hard to grasp. The major reason that hybrids were not invited to large groups is not solely because of their experience penalty, but instead because specialized classes could always do their role better than a hybrid. For example a warrior will tank better than a paladin or shadowknight. A enchanter will cc better than a bard. A cleric will heal and buff better than a paladin. A druid will cc and buff better than a ranger. A rogue or wizard or monk will (burst/wizard) dps better than a sk or ranger. And so on.

What good are all those extra powers if it doesn't get you into large groups?

What I think really happened is they increased specialized abilities in the hybrids above what they'd be if they were truly balanced. Specialized abilities are things like tanking or dps or healing or ccing. If they were truly balanced there'd be no need for an experience penalty. Clearly, SOE believed at the time that they were not truly balanced. I think this is because they either increased their specialized abilities or they simply could not accurately measure the value of intangibles like root and snare or feign death or loh. Those intangibles ultimately tended to become redundant in groups and perhaps verant designers did not foresee this as well.

People here really need to level from 1-20 with root/snare and without root/snare. The value of them is hard to measure. They can both be incredibly powerful and at the same time redundant. For example, if you're killing near a zoneline then root/snare aren't nearly as interesting. Whereas, if you're in a big zone like west karana or too far from a zoneline, then root or snare can be a life saver. If you're a big group, chances are more than 1 person has root. More than all this, if you really compare a warrior in the low levels to a ranger you will see clear differences in power, especially in smaller groups or in solo situations. It can be really life saving to have a ranger for root/snare in a 3-person group if the cleric is spending too much mana on healing the tank, for example.

There's also the issue that being able to solo well has its advantages. Soloers tend to have invis and root and/or movement speed buffs and tend to be able to handle being on their own well. So if they can't find a group then they can fill in the downtime with experience. And if they're doing a quest that nobody else wants to help them with then their utility is very helpful. Being able to solo is definitely something that's not free in everquest. Can you recall how many times you were alone as a non-hybrid? Just add up all that time and imagine how much better it would have been with root/snare/heals/dots/invis/sow/etc.

But overall I think that the superiority of specialized classes in groups won and this is probably the primary reason that the penalties went off the cliff and so were removed. In the end, all the utility in the world is meaningless if it's only good in solo or small group situations. This was the lesson. Even if you cut 15% off tanking and considered this overpowering (and thus introduced an experience penalty) and gave them all the utility they want it's still mostly meaningless (and therefore broken) if they're a tank-type class.

EQ1 was a game made for specialized classes coming together in groups. It just wasn't prepared for jack-of-all-trades. The necromancer might be its only real accomplishment in that regard.

Necromancer is probably my favorite class. I just don't like its evil alignment.

[Nirgon]

Yeah, take the bard hybrid penalty off, let's do this

[Tomatoking]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People here should also not forget that when people reach max level the experience penalty no longer applies. This was something that was mentioned in the producers letter:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

Here is my previous post here where I explain what I know:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...997#post827997

I think that they overestimated the power of the extra abilities given to hybrids. The primary reason I think this is somewhat related to the class population link in my signature. What that shows is that the group-based classes succeed in reaching max level much more than hybrids. So for every instance of a character being created at level 1, if they're a hybrid then they're less likely to reach cap. If you think about it, it's not hard to grasp. The major reason that hybrids were not invited to large groups is not solely because of their experience penalty, but instead because specialized classes could always do their role better than a hybrid. For example a warrior will tank better than a paladin or shadowknight. A enchanter will cc better than a bard. A cleric will heal and buff better than a paladin. A druid will cc and buff better than a ranger. A rogue or wizard or monk will (burst/wizard) dps better than a sk or ranger. And so on.

What good are all those extra powers if it doesn't get you into large groups?

What I think really happened is they increased specialized abilities in the hybrids above what they'd be if they were truly balanced. Specialized abilities are things like tanking or dps or healing or ccing. If they were truly balanced there'd be no need for an experience penalty. Clearly, SOE believed at the time that they were not truly balanced. I think this is because they either increased their specialized abilities or they simply could not accurately measure the value of intangibles like root and snare or feign death or loh. Those intangibles ultimately tended to become redundant in groups and perhaps verant designers did not foresee this as well.

People here really need to level from 1-20 with root/snare and without root/snare. The value of them is hard to measure. They can both be incredibly powerful and at the same time redundant. For example, if you're killing near a zoneline then root/snare aren't nearly as interesting. Whereas, if you're in a big zone like west karana or too far from a zoneline, then root or snare can be a life saver. If you're a big group, chances are more than 1 person has root. More than all this, if you really compare a warrior in the low levels to a ranger you will see clear differences in power, especially in smaller groups or in solo situations. It can be really life saving to have a ranger for root/snare in a 3-person group if the cleric is spending too much mana on healing the tank, for example.

There's also the issue that being able to solo well has its advantages. Soloers tend to have invis and root and/or movement speed buffs and tend to be able to handle being on their own well. So if they can't find a group then they can fill in the downtime with experience. And if they're doing a quest that nobody else wants to help them with then their utility is very helpful. Being able to solo is definitely something that's not free in everquest. Can you recall how many times you were alone as a non-hybrid? Just add up all that time and imagine how much better it would have been with root/snare/heals/dots/invis/sow/etc.

But overall I think that the superiority of specialized classes in groups won and this is probably the primary reason that the penalties went off the cliff and so were removed. In the end, all the utility in the world is meaningless if it's only good in solo or small group situations. This was the lesson.

TLDR

Bla bla

P.S

This message is hidden because Nirgon is on your ignore list.