Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't have bias. I have every class, and I can guarantee I've done more builds than you. I've learned to appreciate them all in their own way. I know reality whereas you seem to have a distorted view of it to support your favorite class claims.

You've shown how much dps a shaman can do when there are 4-5 mobs in camp and they are allowed to just sit there and hit full epic duration time after time. This is an effective way for a shaman to solo, but you don't even see this happening when shaman's duo. You're usually just focusing down 1 mob at a time and being careful more times than not at what you bring in, especially with super high level content. The hole for instance could easily be a wipe if you get 2-3 nasty golems.

The same goes for this group of 4 situation. There's no point to attempt to bring that many mobs in at once, and let them sit there over and over again so the shaman can do more dps, hehe. It's an unnecessary risk especially when fighting mobs that lvl 60s actually care about, lol. Even seb mobs can get nasty once you get past 3 of them. As myself & Danth already pointed out, most situations you will just eventually run out of mobs too.

Shaman's are a more superior overall class than a mage, but what mages do well, they do really well. This particular scenario is one that they are built for when you have an enchanter/cleric that can cover what a shaman brings to the table.

So sorry, everyone will be enjoying the superior mage dps while your shaman will be sitting there on the baseball field not getting picked for either team of pure casters.

You claim you don't have a bias. I claim I don't have a bias. No way to prove it either way, so we are at an impasse[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] You have no monopoly on anti-bias, or proof you have less bias than I do.

You don't need to have every class to know how the math of the game works, or how classes interact in groups.

We were talking about Sebilis, because that is where Troxx got his DPS logs from. As a Shaman I am often times fighting 3-4 mobs down there at a time, because that's how the agro works. I can do this consistently, which means you can do it in a group too. I am sorry that people don't want to play this way, but that doesn't mean you would exclude a Shaman due to lack of DPS in Sebilis. They could match a Mage's DPS if the group wanted it, plus all the additional utility that they have and a Mage does not.

You need to show situations where a Mage is superior over a Shaman. So far the Sebilis example doesn't work, as my Shaman could match the high end DPS of a Mage down there. The math will remain the same, regardless of how you feel.

Also, it is silly to say "you could run out of mobs". That would also be the case if you DPS too fast with the Enchanter/Mage Pets lol. The killspeed is the same if I am matching DPS. This should be a no brainer.

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Raise your hand if you want to be in a group with some idiot shaman root rotting 4 mobs at a time to make his epic click do respectable damage?

Or you could just group with a mage that does as much/more without all the bullshit. Or better yet just get another enchanter that does like 3x as much dmg with another charm pet. It's fucking insane how far you're reaching to try to shoehorn your dumb class into this hypothetical "whos the best 4 caster group" question. Literally everyone knows you're wrong and you've made like 150 posts saying pure nonsense trying to argue otherwise.

Preference is irrelevant to math. You cannot say the Mage is objectively better here. The math disproves the claim. You just prefer it for your play style. That is fine, but it is not an objective fact. You call a Shaman "dumb", but you have no bias. Got it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Preference is irrelevant to math. You cannot say the Mage is objectively better here. The math disproves the claim. You just prefer it for your play style. That is fine, but it is not an objective fact. You call a Shaman "dumb", but you have no bias. Got it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The math says an additional enchanter does MUCH more sustained damage regardless of number of targets than you could ever hope to. The math also says mages will do much more than you consistently on a single target which is the vast majority of the time in most situations. I've played this game since beta from live to early p99 through like 6+ TLP servers and back to P99 multiple times in between. Not once have I ever been in a group where anyone said "Hey I got a good idea lets root 4 mobs off to the side so a shaman can epic click them and do almost as much damage as a mage"

I honestly can't believe you're actually trying to make this dipshit argument.

[PlsNoBan]

Raise your hand if you want to be in a group with some idiot shaman root rotting 4 mobs at a time to make his epic click do respectable damage?

Or you could just group with a mage that does as much/more without all the bullshit. Or better yet just get another enchanter that does like 3x as much dmg with another charm pet. It's fucking insane how far you're reaching to try to shoehorn your dumb class into this hypothetical "whos the best 4 caster group" question. Literally everyone knows you're wrong and you've made like 150 posts saying pure nonsense trying to argue otherwise.

[PlsNoBan]

Can we get an epic mage with pet focus to post some parses and shut this moron up please?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Can we get an epic mage with pet focus to post some parses and shut this moron up please?

Epic Pet is so rare on this server it's not really relevant. Unless you know an Epic Mage you aren't going to be grouping with them often. There are more Torpor Shamans than Epic Mages hehe. People don't screen for gear on P99 for the most part either, so they won't know whether or not the Mage they are getting has their Epic if it is a pickup group. The assumption would be they wouldn't have it.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Epic Pet is so rare on this server it's not really relevant. Unless you know an Epic Mage you aren't going to be grouping with them often. There are more Torpor Shamans than Epic Mages hehe. People don't screen for gear on P99 for the most part either, so they won't know whether or not the Mage they are getting has their Epic if it is a pickup group. The assumption would be they wouldn't have it.

Ahhh so the shaman can have epic but the mage can't. Got it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahhh so the shaman can have epic but the mage can't. Got it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol yes. Shaman Epic is EXTREMELY common. Child's Tear is basically given away for free in high end guilds, the DKP value is just so cheap.

Good luck seeing even 1 Earth Staff in months of raiding, and another player will probably out-bid you.

Also remember that for a good portion of a server's life Child's Tears are even easier to get (before Fear revamp). This means even more Shamans can get their Epics for cheaper during this time.

[Danth]

Big difference between disco and myconids. Are your fungus king groups regularly trying to root/rot all those priests and reavers? Mine sure didn't and with the resist rates being what they were I don't see why they would have wanted to. Definitely have done plenty of the multi-target-dotting in weaker areas especially when someone wanted experience but we were talking all 60's here.

At any rate we seem to be on the same page more or less in that neither shaman nor magician is quite in the top tier for rounding out this particular group. That's good enough for me. My vote's for third enchanter or necromancer.

Danth

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Big difference between disco and myconids. Are your fungus king groups regularly trying to root/rot all those priests and reavers? Mine sure didn't and with the resist rates being what they were I don't see why they would have wanted to. Definitely have done plenty of the multi-target-dotting in weaker areas especially when someone wanted experience but we were talking all 60's here.

At any rate we seem to be on the same page more or less in that neither shaman nor magician is quite in the top tier for rounding out this particular group. That's good enough for me. My vote's for third enchanter or necromancer.

Danth

In a Fungi King group you don't pick a Mage. The normal setup would be Monk or SK/Enchanter/Shaman and a Cleric (player or alt camped for reses). People try not to run a 6 man group so everybody has a better shot at a tunic.

Fungi King is a perfect example of a camp where you aren't trying to maximize DPS. You want safety so you can keep the camp. Nothing is worse than a wipe and another group moves in. That is why a Shaman's utility is so important for Fungi King camp. You don't need to root/rot mobs because the puller isn't trying to bring in a bunch of mobs. You just kill the PH.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fungi King is a perfect example of a camp where you aren't trying to maximize DPS. You want safety so you can keep the camp. Nothing is worse than a wipe and another group moves in.

Yup. That's one factor which makes the necromancer nice--feign/rez is really good for maintaining presence in contested areas.

Per the rest of your post, normally I agree but we're already in oddball land because of the arbitrary "only casters as primary characters" rule the thread started with. Valid enough to say that someone out of this group is likely switching to a monk alt if they go down to fungus king because realistically someone probably would.

Danth