CoWorker said the border was at fault that non-vaxed ppl are dying

[Mesocyclone]

need a huge wall to border washington DC from the United States of America

[Nirgon]

Those things work. This clearly doesn't and you're suggesting forcing it? When it has definitely killed people?

This virus is a joke unless you're in a severe health category like being obese.

Quarantine obese and otherwise at risk people. Good idea. Experimental shot which has a chance of killing? That doesn't work? Hell no.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those things work. This clearly doesn't and you're suggesting forcing it? When it has definitely killed people?

This virus is a joke unless you're in a severe health category like being obese.

Quarantine obese and otherwise at risk people. Good idea. Experimental shot which has a chance of killing? That doesn't work? Hell no.

You realize the technology has been around for decades right? We've just never had a reason to need to use it. It was tested on the same amount of people as any other vaccine would be prior to its circulation. Also, the J&J vaccine doesn't us mRNA to my knowledge and is more in line with your "standard" type of vaccine that people have been used to (although I don't know a lot of details about J&J).

The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines aren't causing adverse reactions any more than other vaccines might. You realize you could quite literally have an adverse and possibly deadly reaction to any medication you take right? Does that stop you from going to the pharmacy and buying something, or taking medicine prescribed by your doctor? The whole "vaccine could cause me to have an adverse reaction" argument only holds up if you literally refuse to take any type of medicine ever.

I know multiple people in their 20s and 30s who died of COVID. Completely healthy (one was a triathlete) and with no pre-existing conditions. Initial data from Delta is showing that it can kill completely healthy people not infrequently; we could be looking at a much more deadly strain than we dealt with in 2020. And things only get worse if enough people don't get vaccinated because what that means is the more the virus transmits the more opportunity it has to develop into an even deadlier strain that even you would find dangerous...so we can either try and stop it now or everyone can decide to finally wake up several months from now when we have a strain of the virus that's killing over 10% of the people it infects with no regard to whether they were healthy or not before.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Horza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're talking to a brick wall made of fringe right conspiracy theories only retarded people can take seriously.

Seriously. I'll talk "across the aisle" all day to people who hold different beliefs than me, but when someone says something as monumentally disconnected from reality as:

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those things work. This clearly doesn't and you're suggesting forcing it? When it has definitely killed people?

This virus is a joke unless you're in a severe health category like being obese.

It just makes it clear there's no point in talking: you're trying to reason with someone who doesn't live in reality. At that point it's not about party or political differences ... or logic, or reason ... it's a religious debate.

Nirgon's religion is QAnon, and nothing anyone here can ever say will make him change his affiliation.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Seriously. I'll talk "across the aisle" all day to people who hold different beliefs than me, but when someone says something as monumentally disconnected from reality as:



It just makes it clear there's no point in talking: you're trying to reason with someone who doesn't live in reality. At that point it's not about party or political differences ... or logic, or reason ... it's a religious debate.

Nirgon's religion is QAnon, and nothing anyone here can ever say will make him change his affiliation.

Yeah I mean this whole like political conspiracy theory stuff around the vaccine also makes no sense. Like if anything wouldn't the left NOT want the people on the right to get vaccinated? The more people on the right who don't get vaccinated and die of COVID the less voters there are on the right.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I mean this whole like political conspiracy theory stuff around the vaccine also makes no sense.

A lot of it doesn't, I agree.

I don't need a political conspiracy to look at what's going on and decide that I don't particularly need the shot right now. Maybe I'll change my mind later on, but I regard that as my choice to make, not Uncle Sam's. It's a near thing and the wife and I just about got the shot in March except it was shut down that day due to some snafu. I'm at elevated risk (clotting for one) of adverse reaction so some hesitation is not unwarranted. The wife has dramatically higher odds of reaction due to her own health issues to the point where her own doctor suggested she might not want to get it at all. Even then the risk is relatively minor--but the risk of death from covid is also minor. On the other hand, if folks try to force the issue, I'll fight on that principle alone. I consider that a worthy cause to fight for. I regard it as the duty of a good citizen to resist government over-reach in all its forms. This entire situation has reeked of overreach from the start.

Given the very clear over-reporting of death rate there's obviously a political angle at work with respect to this subject as well, but I can't even begin to claim to know the purpose. I don't easily adopt conspiracy theories, especially not on a global scale. Rather than some conspiracy an alternate scenario is over-reaction from governments (most of whom are run by old folks in their 60's and 70's and who hence have every right to be scared) coupled with lots of bribery from the drug producers. That's one option of many.

Danth

[Evia]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the other hand, if folks try to force the issue, I'll fight on that principle alone. I consider that a worthy cause to fight for. I regard it as the duty of a good citizen to resist government over-reach in all its forms. This entire situation has reeked of overreach from the start.

Danth

Major respect for people like you, Danth.

[Horza]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of it doesn't, I agree.

I don't need a political conspiracy to look at what's going on and decide that I don't particularly need the shot right now. Maybe I'll change my mind later on, but I regard that as my choice to make, not Uncle Sam's. It's a near thing and the wife and I just about got the shot in March except it was shut down that day due to some snafu. I'm at elevated risk (clotting for one) of adverse reaction so some hesitation is not unwarranted. The wife has dramatically higher odds of reaction due to her own health issues to the point where her own doctor suggested she might not want to get it at all. Even then the risk is relatively minor--but the risk of death from covid is also minor. On the other hand, if folks try to force the issue, I'll fight on that principle alone. I consider that a worthy cause to fight for. I regard it as the duty of a good citizen to resist government over-reach in all its forms. This entire situation has reeked of overreach from the start.

Given the very clear over-reporting of death rate there's obviously a political angle at work with respect to this subject as well, but I can't even begin to claim to know the purpose. I don't easily adopt conspiracy theories, especially not on a global scale. Rather than some conspiracy an alternate scenario is over-reaction from governments (most of whom are run by old folks in their 60's and 70's and who hence have every right to be scared) coupled with lots of bribery from the drug producers. That's one option of many.

Danth

What over reporting of the death rate are you referring to specifically, Mr. antivax conspiracy theorist?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of it doesn't, I agree.

I don't need a political conspiracy to look at what's going on and decide that I don't particularly need the shot right now. Maybe I'll change my mind later on, but I regard that as my choice to make, not Uncle Sam's. It's a near thing and the wife and I just about got the shot in March except it was shut down that day due to some snafu. I'm at elevated risk (clotting for one) of adverse reaction so some hesitation is not unwarranted. The wife has dramatically higher odds of reaction due to her own health issues to the point where her own doctor suggested she might not want to get it at all. Even then the risk is relatively minor--but the risk of death from covid is also minor. On the other hand, if folks try to force the issue, I'll fight on that principle alone. I consider that a worthy cause to fight for. I regard it as the duty of a good citizen to resist government over-reach in all its forms. This entire situation has reeked of overreach from the start.

Given the very clear over-reporting of death rate there's obviously a political angle at work with respect to this subject as well, but I can't even begin to claim to know the purpose. I don't easily adopt conspiracy theories, especially not on a global scale. Rather than some conspiracy an alternate scenario is over-reaction from governments (most of whom are run by old folks in their 60's and 70's and who hence have every right to be scared) coupled with lots of bribery from the drug producers. That's one option of many.

Danth

Hypothetically Danth, could you see how some sort of spreadable disease might make it so vaccinations aren't just about personal choice? In other words, could you imagine how one person's "personal choice" might result in someone else's death (say, because they spread the illness to someone with a weaker immune system)?

And if so, does that bother you at all, or are you just like "fuck other people: morals are about what's right for me"?

(Genuine question, not a judgment: it could still be a principled opinion if you, like some Libertarians for instance, believe on principle that we should only care about what's good for individuals.)

[Toxigen]

still not getting the jab