there is a private list system going on at AC in OOT?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the alternative is a week long waiting list just to get camps like OoT Sisters, AC, frenzied ghoul, etc?

Yes, you trade off getting every camp you ever want quickly without trouble in order to play with people on the server. For most of us, this is a good trade off.

I mean, if you want...you can play on any emu server and pretty much get the entire server to yourself. If that's fun

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, you trade off getting every camp you ever want quickly without trouble in order to play with people on the server. For most of us, this is a good trade off.

I mean, if you want...you can play on any emu server and pretty much get the entire server to yourself. If that's fun

I'm not saying there shouldn't be competition, but if some camps are so overwhelmingly waitlisted that only the most elite, diehard of poopsockers will ever be able to get in on them by literally sitting at their keyboard for days on end without ever getting a breath of fresh air, that's a problem, one that Blue doesn't have. Blue is in a perfect balance right now, there's enough people to group and do content with, competition for high-demand camps and mobs, but not so much that you have to forego any sort of outside life to even be able to get in on.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So the alternative is a week long waiting list just to get camps like OoT Sisters, AC, frenzied ghoul, etc?

Or Blue.

But also keep in mind that Verant knew AC (in particular) would be popular, and that's why OOT isn't the only AC: there are three other zones you can try and get him in ... it's just they require tracking and/or clearing placeholders and/or showing up at certain times: http://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient%20Cyclops

But ultimately when you have X people that want a thing, and that thing only appears once every Y times, someone is going to have to wait X * Y times to get that thing. That's unavoidable, unless you change the game (which defeats the point of Green).

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or Blue.

But also keep in mind that Verant knew AC (in particular) would be popular, and that's why OOT isn't the only AC: there are three other zones you can try and get him in ... it's just they require tracking and/or clearing placeholders and/or showing up at certain times: http://wiki.project1999.com/Ancient%20Cyclops

But ultimately when you have X people that want a thing, and that thing only appears once every Y times, someone is going to have to wait X * Y times to get that thing. That's unavoidable, unless you change the game (which defeats the point of Green).

I'm a Blue boy (with a bit of Red alt), through and through. But the title of this thread made me genuinely concerned for the life expectancy of Green. The last thing Green needs is another TMO coming in and monopolizing the entire server by putting a steel padlock on all the high-end Raid and Epic content.

[magnetaress]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clever. But is the cure for camp problems on blue/green really to let our population get so low that at peak times each player has on average three whole zones to themselves?

That doesn't happen on blue/green.

If they shut blue and green down red pop would go up a lot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People are inherently lazy then complain about having to share or being told to share. Or wait because they are ineffectual at gaming whatever the current system is.

This is what is defective about *working together peacefully **ism*. I'm not saying there aren't elements to either that don't work but the slippery slope to /lists is real.

[Sabin76]

Well, that are actually two different things going on here:

The first is the vision for how extremely high-demand items (like RotA) should be "distributed" amongst the playerbase. The two extremes of this continuum being everyone on the server gets a chance to camp and get the item (with at least the caveat that you can actually KILL the mob), and let one person hold the camp and monopolize the item indefinitely. I don't think anyone really ascribes to either extreme, but it also doesn't seem like there is any consensus on where in this continuum the game should actually be.

The second is how to implement a system that achieves the above vision that can't be gamed (or, at least, makes it hard to... and circumventing it has a harsh enough punishment to deter said circumvention). But without a consensus on point one, talking about point two is meaningless.

At the same time, I don't think you can lump XP camps like Sisters in with loot camps like AC. You can literally get XP in a large number of places all over the world. Not all of them are ideal, but the option is certainly there. No drop items are a different animal as there is only one or two mobs in the game that drop them. There is no other option.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Sabin76 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, that are actually two different things going on here:

The first is the vision for how extremely high-demand items (like RotA) should be "distributed" amongst the playerbase. The two extremes of this continuum being everyone on the server gets a chance to camp and get the item (with at least the caveat that you can actually KILL the mob), and let one person hold the camp and monopolize the item indefinitely. I don't think anyone really ascribes to either extreme, but it also doesn't seem like there is any consensus on where in this continuum the game should actually be.

The second is how to implement a system that achieves the above vision that can't be gamed (or, at least, makes it hard to... and circumventing it has a harsh enough punishment to deter said circumvention). But without a consensus on point one, talking about point two is meaningless.

At the same time, I don't think you can lump XP camps like Sisters in with loot camps like AC. You can literally get XP in a large number of places all over the world. Not all of them are ideal, but the option is certainly there. No drop items are a different animal as there is only one or two mobs in the game that drop them. There is no other option.

There are other options though...you can buy pretty much all the items you can't camp (because you CAN farm pp...and the players farming the items are doing it to sell them to you). I've never understood the romance of camping items yourself. If I can make enough pp for an FBSS in EC tunnel faster than I can get the camp/item then I happily thank the farmers and save some time.

If the farmers weren't selling their hauls then you'd have another problem...but they are. Not every char is going to camp their own AC ring...not every char needs to camp their own fbss...or GEBs...the game was designed so that there is a market for this stuff.

The legit camping concerns are items that not sold (either because they are hoarding or the item isn't MQable/Droppable).

If you want to farm an FBSS you need to roll a solo class and go sit until you get the camp...and then when you get it you don't leave...ever. There are other routes (guild farming grps, etc.), but this is normal EQ. This is the EQ way.

You aren't going to get to farm your own FBSS if you can only play a couple hours at a time, aren't a solo class, and don't have friends helping you do it. This is the EQ way.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You aren't going to get to farm your own FBSS if you can only play a couple hours at a time, aren't a solo class, and don't have friends helping you do it. This is the EQ way.

So you're saying if you can't commit twelve hours a day without interruption to playing EQ, no meal breaks, no getting some fresh air, not even being able to use the restroom like a proper bloke, you'll never have access to the items or content you want? That's not how a game should be. A game should be an escape from the stresses of real life. One should not have to feel shackled to it to be able to enjoy it or progress in it.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Loadsamoney [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you're saying if you can't commit twelve hours a day without interruption to playing EQ, no meal breaks, no getting some fresh air, not even being able to use the restroom like a proper bloke, you'll never have access to the items or content you want? That's not how a game should be. A game should be an escape from the stresses of real life. One should not have to feel shackled to it to be able to enjoy it or progress in it.

I've camped pretty much every significant camp in EQ. You're being hyperbolic about how hard it is. Yes, you need time...but you can eat, watch tv, read, play other games (including EQ on other servers). You set timers and monitor the room for other players/trains, but it isn't nearly as poop socky as you describe it.

Ironically, the worst camp I've ever done in EQ was the guise on p99 green. Yah, I'm guarenteed the item...but the afk checks for literally 48 hours is insane and horribly unhealthy for the people (like me) that did it straight up without someone else logging in my toon. By far the worst experience of my EQ life...by day 2 I was literally getting sick and starting to take cat naps in five minute clips. This is not what most camps are like in EQ without /list.

As for access to the items? Yah, you farm the pp like I said and buy your fbss. For content? You're really over-stating how "fun" these camps are. You aren't missing anything after you've done them for an hour.

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've camped pretty much every significant camp in EQ. You're being hyperbolic about how hard it is. Yes, you need time...but you can eat, watch tv, read, play other games (including EQ on other servers). You set timers and monitor the room for other players/trains, but it isn't nearly as poop socky as you describe it.

Ironically, the worst camp I've ever done in EQ was the guise on p99 green. Yah, I'm guarenteed the item...but the afk checks for literally 48 hours is insane and horribly unhealthy for the people (like me) that did it straight up without someone else logging in my toon. By far the worst experience of my EQ life...by day 2 I was literally getting sick and starting to take cat naps in five minute clips. This is not what most camps are like in EQ without /list.

As for access to the items? Yah, you farm the pp like I said and buy your fbss. For content? You're really over-stating how "fun" these camps are. You aren't missing anything after you've done them for an hour.

And what about named mobs that are on a one-week spawn timer and have necessary drops for Epics that are immediately batphoned two minutes after spawning? How do the non-elite guildies who can't commit 80 hours a week get them without having 500k to MQ it?