Merging Made Sense Then COVID-19 - Unmerge

[billwilliams]

Why does this "play nice policy" allow things like 1 single level 50 to hold down mobs/camps meant for 6 person groups? Or even a duo of high level 40s/50s? How stupid is that? If the rules had any sense or logic to them the GMs/Guides would have probably 50% less interactions with anyone and you wouldn't need to unmerge if camps were being held by actual groups and not 90% 1-2 people at most. Duh duh duh duh should be obvious, especially to 20 year+ vets running this whole thing, but NAH lets instead dedicate n most our time enforcing made-up libtard speech rules and make sure no one is cursing or talking about politics or doesn't have the name Cornhole Butthole than actual solutions to what players have been bitching about on this server since day 1 opening.

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by billwilliams [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why does this "play nice policy" allow things like 1 single level 50 to hold down mobs/camps meant for 6 person groups? Or even a duo of high level 40s/50s? How stupid is that? If the rules had any sense or logic to them the GMs/Guides would have probably 50% less interactions with anyone and you wouldn't need to unmerge if camps were being held by actual groups and not 90% 1-2 people at most. Duh duh duh duh should be obvious, especially to 20 year+ vets running this whole thing, but NAH lets instead dedicate n most our time enforcing made-up libtard speech rules and make sure no one is cursing or talking about politics or doesn't have the name Cornhole Butthole than actual solutions to what players have been bitching about on this server since day 1 opening.

That's what im talking about with the classic grouping experience. Some rules should be changed because they originated in blue and don't work in the spirit of greens classic experience.

I propose that in dungeons no one is allowed to solo camp a camp. Whoever is there has to invite people wanting in the camp until the group is full.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by turbosilk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what im talking about with the classic grouping experience. Some rules should be changed because they originated in blue and don't work in the spirit of greens classic experience.

I propose that in dungeons no one is allowed to solo camp a camp. Whoever is there has to invite people wanting in the camp until the group is full.

Great solution, force people to invite randoms no matter what. That'll surely "fix" the server...

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Great solution, force people to invite randoms no matter what. That'll surely "fix" the server...

You have to admit forcing people to group is what made EQ great. Social forcing mechanisms are good for MMOs. Which is also why boxing is anathema.

[astuce999]

I think the biggest issue with this discussion, and with a lot of discussions today in general whenever the topic is about making things “better” for a group of people (in this case players in a 20 year old elf-sim game) is the amalgamation of two contradictory concepts when it comes to equality.

There is equality in opportunity:

I want a shot at getting pixels.

There is equality in outcomes:

I am entitled to pixels.

Let’s use a familiar model to illustrate how this quickly becomes an impossible debate. Equality in opportunity is Apples, equality in outcomes is Oranges.

So on one side you have people arguing that we should let people have Apples, and on the other side you have people arguing that we shouldn’t let people have Oranges.

And both sides get angry.

Cheers,

Astuce

[jerryR]

Only responding because I started back on green during the height of the cov19 lockdown.

I get the vibe that a lot of people that use the "casual" argument really are still spending 4+ hours a day, every day playing this game. Casual seems to more synonymous to being a lower level character (< level 35) than hours played per week when you dig deeper.

If you're actually a casual player and have one or two nights a week you can play at length: even if you got the best xp camp in the game for your level every time you log on, it's going to be a long road. So why stress - give the server a few more weeks when burnout, Aradune and the lock down ending takes some peeps off. There still are plenty of spots to get good cash and XP on this server regardless of the amount of people playing. It is not nearly as dire as some people suggest. And honestly.. your time budget really doesn't support min/maxing or pining over some item that will make you ever so subtly better.

To the some of those people complaining: I really have no faith in your altruism should your timing be right or you finally get to a level where you can capitalize on a good item/cash camp yourself. You would do the exact same thing that these other people you seem to despise are doing. It's the greed and entitlement that is making you angry - even if the person camping is essentially in the same boat as you but just had more time (or better timing) to get the spot you've been wanting.

I've had people like billwilliams message me and accuse me of things when I don't even have a guild or a close group of friends that play - I just put the solid time in to get the camp via a list. So do some self reflection. I'd suggest finding more balance in your life. It's super frustrating that your itemization progress is gated by someone else, but if you're truly in the server for the long haul and not just racing to your next burn out.. maybe you can learn some patience and perspective.

Failing that, you can easily still make progress towards 50 and get money to buy items while sitting on a list (which being higher level will make you way more efficient to camp the item anyway).

As far as new server: I say wait it out til the fall and see how the numbers look rather than splitting the population (again only to have it drop). If the population is still this high all summer.. then maybe look at spinning up another server around Kunark launch. Though I agree with the sentiment you're going to still see the same competition in the higher end camps eventually there too, regardless.

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by jerryR [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only responding because I started back on green during the height of the cov19 lockdown.

I get the vibe that a lot of people that use the "casual" argument really are still spending 4+ hours a day, every day playing this game. Casual seems to more synonymous to being a lower level character (< level 35) than hours played per week when you dig deeper.

If you're actually a casual player and have one or two nights a week you can play at length: even if you got the best xp camp in the game for your level every time you log on, it's going to be a long road. So why stress - give the server a few more weeks when burnout, Aradune and the lock down ending takes some peeps off. There still are plenty of spots to get good cash and XP on this server regardless of the amount of people playing. It is not nearly as dire as some people suggest. And honestly.. your time budget really doesn't support min/maxing or pining over some item that will make you ever so subtly better.

To the some of those people complaining: I really have no faith in your altruism should your timing be right or you finally get to a level where you can capitalize on a good item/cash camp yourself. You would do the exact same thing that these other people you seem to despise are doing. It's the greed and entitlement that is making you angry - even if the person camping is essentially in the same boat as you but just had more time (or better timing) to get the spot you've been wanting.

I've had people like billwilliams message me and accuse me of things when I don't even have a guild or a close group of friends that play - I just put the solid time in to get the camp via a list. So do some self reflection. I'd suggest finding more balance in your life. It's super frustrating that your itemization progress is gated by someone else, but if you're truly in the server for the long haul and not just racing to your next burn out.. maybe you can learn some patience and perspective.

Failing that, you can easily still make progress towards 50 and get money to buy items while sitting on a list (which being higher level will make you way more efficient to camp the item anyway).

As far as new server: I say wait it out til the fall and see how the numbers look rather than splitting the population (again only to have it drop). If the population is still this high all summer.. then maybe look at spinning up another server around Kunark launch. Though I agree with the sentiment you're going to still see the same competition in the higher end camps eventually there too, regardless.

Good post but Green is here to recreate the classic experience. Join my groups if you mistrust my altruism. I also don't solo camp at 50. Wrecks the classic experience.

If you want to solo to victory and be antisocial I recommend TLP or retail WoW.

[jerryR]

Originally Posted by turbosilk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good post but Green is here to recreate the classic experience. Join my groups if you mistrust my altruism. I also don't solo camp at 50. Wrecks the classic experience.

If you want to solo to victory and be antisocial I recommend TLP or retail WoW.

Was more of a general statement, not specifically to your situation. Though I still think there's plenty of camps you can bring your group to get XP - might not be in your top 5 but it's possible. Hopefully summer will make it easier for your group going forward though, wish you luck.

Your second point I don't really understand though. It's the game mechanics and timeline that make it classic ? If the server is mechanically classic than however someone decides to play is irrelevant, no ? The idea that I'm somehow unwittingly playing the game 'unclassically' is a bit nuts to be honest. That is where you lost me. Enforcing a play style mechanically or otherwise seems more like WoW to me than EQ, which adds to the irony of your statement

[turbosilk]

Originally Posted by jerryR [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Was more of a general statement, not specifically to your situation. Though I still think there's plenty of camps you can bring your group to get XP - might not be in your top 5 but it's possible. Hopefully summer will make it easier for your group going forward though, wish you luck.

Your second point I don't really understand though. It's the game mechanics and timeline that make it classic ? If the server is mechanically classic than however someone decides to play is irrelevant, no ? The idea that I'm somehow unwittingly playing the game 'unclassically' is a bit nuts to be honest. That is where you lost me. Enforcing a play style mechanically or otherwise seems more like WoW to me than EQ, which adds to the irony of your statement

This is I think were we have to keep in mind that Rogean and Nilbog are here recreating the classic experience not the exact mechanics. A prime example of this is not allowing boxing. Boxing is classic but it was highly unlikely a person could/would be running 6 computers. 1 person holding a camp by themselves while 2-6 boxing wrecks the classic experience. And 1 person holding a camp by themselves period wrecks the classic experience.

Solo camping was an outdoors thing not a dungeons thing.

[jerryR]

Originally Posted by turbosilk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And 1 person holding a camp by themselves period wrecks the classic experience.

Solo camping was an outdoors thing not a dungeons thing.

But it was possible to do it in classic same as now, no ? I just don't see how your idea could possibly come to fruition without a mechanical intervention that would be equally un-classic. Splitting the server again is clearly not going to address this issue, so what are you actually suggesting is the solution ?

The only way to achieve a classic experience like you want is probably to buff mobs, modify spawns and pathing etc to make locking down camps solo a bit more inconvenient and other fundamental changes to make up for the fact it's 2020. And even then it's guaranteed the meta will swing and there will be some other way to accomplish the same thing just in a new way.