Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[Zeboim]

True. 4 to 5 enc groups are somehow not only a thing now, but possibly the strongest group type. Incredibly unclassic, in 99 that would have been considered (rightfully) a suicide squad.

[Buellen]

Ok some everlore digging.


Yes its a bit out of era 2002 but gives good account low level charming.

https://web.archive.org/web/20021231...me=Charm&type=

"I happen to think this spell is LOADS of fun and quite productive! I have horrible luck with the regular ENC pets, can never get them to attack and I get clobbered. I saw the benefit immediately if you're waiting for a group to show up or messing about aimlessly. Get good xp and spell casting experience even when you're dorking around [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]. My CHA is around 120, tash, root and charm and my solo attack sequence standing by. pick my pet, root it. back up and sit down and wait for 10 seconds or so, depending on root. thank the gods for the ability to still see while memming, revolutionized spell casting letmetellyou!. try to get as close to when your root will end, tash it and charm it. If you trust your charm, watch for it to break, then apply tash and charm (in that order!) Insta-PET! do the /pet guard me and sit down to bring up the solo attack sequence. Don't dawdle, charm has to be applied liberally. I'd say every minute and this is tough on mana. Go out and play with your pet! Plan to have to take on your pet and for gods sakes don't think you can take on a red con with your dark blue pet, they'll both be pissed at you. I find myself rooting my pets often and membluring them. Start over. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have not traveled a whole lot, but found that the animals (crocs, beetles, spiders, snakes) make good pets. Pumas/lions/cats are INT challenged. they run circles around you, very busy creatures.

If nothing else, soloing with a charmed pet is a very good and productive way to spend time while you wait for a group to build. You end up being able to safely practice all your spells, thanks to root and charm. Charmed pets don't get grumpy when you experiment with spells so use the time for that.
Submited by: Anonymous On: 4/2/2002 1:31:01 PM "

like many have said not a lot old post about these spells but this seem very good description of sound like level 12 enchant playing with his new charm spell.

[lesell]

I'm also looking up stuff on wayback and most people are talking about how charm is viable in a group in 1999:

Everlore discussion on page 1 from 1999:
https://web.archive.org/web/20000510...ils&type=races

They don't mention charm being dangerous or useless to use, and someone even suggests it as a solo tactic on orcs at level 19. I don't think it was 'common knowledge' no one used it.

--Submited by: Viscar On: 06/08/1999 10:14:43 PM '

Ever been in a spot where its pretty much free for all but the one high powered group or individual there is killing everything? No problem charm the monster that you want to kill and grab your group and run to a spot where no one is at. When charm wears off you and your group and finish off that monster with ease! Best of all since charmed monsters are considered pets, anyone else who is trying to blast a charmed monster is wasting ALOT of thier mana trying to kill something they cannot.

And another post by someone else further down:

--Submited by: Anatsia On: 07/08/1999 10:51:37 AM
I am what one would call a newbie? Nahh... level 19 ehchanter
charm is a great spell fighting orcs anywhere in Norrath.
For example go to a camp where there are three orcs or even two.
Charm the orc that is the closet to you and run to the orc and let him
hit you just once. Since you can not control your pet the pet or charmed
enemy is just there to protect you. He will have no choice but to help you fight.
Make sure you tell your party your charming because if you at charm and your party does not know
they will try to kill him and he wont die. The enemy is now your pet you can not have two pets so whatch out
do not charm when you have a pet already.
Then sit back and watch eachother fight until he is dead from the other enemy or when he breaks the spell
this is the so cool when ur are in a train or have more than u can handle

Just based on those two posts alone, I'd say you're wrong about it 'always breaking in 10 seconds' and and never used in groups, etc. Sorry. Obviously people were already using as a tactic (and in groups) it in 1999. No one talks about it breaking in 10 seconds. They don't even mention it being especially dangerous.

And yeah, I remember charming being risky back in the day, but I don't think people viewed charming as super viable until they understood it better. Early guides I've found on enchanters seem rare and they were a pretty misunderstood and under-utilized class back then. I found someone saying that Enchanters weren't very useful even, so... I think that bad enchanters may have somewhat clouded your judgment of charm. I remember there being a stigma about charming in general until people got good at it... a good charm isn't as memorable as the one time the ENC killed everyone with his dumb pet.

And guess what? 20 years later people are very good at it now, so I think that explains the idea that it 'seems' OP. I don't think it is.

Also, I have been trawling casters realm and such and even in 2000 (RoK) era under the 'guides' area there are tons of posts about charming... I can't read them as the wayback didn't archive the actual content, but from the myriad of 'charming' guides, I would say that by RoK, charming was seen as viable. Again, I can't read the actual content of the guides, but from the titles, I don't think they are all saying, 'charming is awful, don't do it,'

https://web.archive.org/web/20010727...ter&Category=6

That is from RoK era-- of note is the "Charming Tactics" guide on there. This is way before PoP and AAs and all that, just FYI.

EDIT: My bad the second link is 2001, I read it wrong, so Velious not RoK, but its still pre-Luclin.

[Buellen]

Just laughs this link shows how people use to thin low cha helped necros with there charms.

https://web.archive.org/web/20020901...e+Undead&type=

[ygagarine]

IMO, sOlo enchanters were rare in 1999 because of the fear of going ld, which happened quite often. Network connections were not as reliable as they are now.

[Lojik]

Seems broken to me but what do I know. I'd suspect it's like Dolalin said that MR checks are too low on ticks on this server, since root (at least in my opinion) doesn't break nearly as often as it did on live either.

I think Daldaen (or someone?) mentioned in another thread that the reverse charming method might not have been possible either, since the xp would be eaten when you kill the first mob. This alone would be a huge nerf, and I'd suspect knock out quite a few leveling enchanters on to other classes.

You'd think that if it was possibly as op as it can be here that you'd see posts about specific encounters, osargen in hhk for one or even other rogue mobs. Maybe there are? If something like this was going on, it'd be pretty outrageous by classic standards. With populations the way they were someone would have seen it and either copied it or posted about it.

[stakka]

Enchanters in their current state on p99 have literally broken and trivialized the content on classic EQ for what its worth. Also I'm sure its been said before, but I hope you guys get used to that. These chanters will be soloing/duoing all the high plat camps from now until the end of velious while your group stands idly by.

[Mercius]

I never really cared about how OP they were until that green naggy kill, that SINGLE imp protector who didnt break once the entire engage and did half the raid dps triggered the fuck out of me lol

[blanks77]

In official patch notes why does it say "Charm is immediately removed from charmed NPC's when the character that charmed them casts invisibility"

Were enchanter not able to break charm with invis prior to this time?

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-1.html

[bwe]

Originally Posted by blanks77 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In official patch notes why does it say "Charm is immediately removed from charmed NPC's when the character that charmed them casts invisibility"

Were enchanter not able to break charm with invis prior to this time?

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2002-1.html

This is a huge find