The plight of the Kagatob

[Rararboker]

Every time I read something from this Paul character it feels like a troll. Either that or he is just super impressionable and can't do much but parrot what others say.

If troll, probably a 9/10 or 10/10 tho. Either way I will continue to watch with great amusement. It is like a safari but with trolls.

[Cecily]

I had a nice reply written and my power went out so this an example of what I'm talking about from a radical feminist author, Janice Raymond. Other notable, more recent anti-trans radical feminists are Sheila Jeffreys and Julie Bindle.

Wiki:

In 1979, Raymond published a book on transsexualism called The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male. Controversial even today, it looked at the role of transsexualism – particularly psychological and surgical approaches to it – in reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes, the ways in which the medical-psychiatric complex is medicalizing “gender identity” and the social and political context that has helped spawn transsexual treatment and surgery as normal and therapeutic medicine.

Raymond maintains that transsexualism is based on the "patriarchal myths" of "male mothering," and "making of woman according to man's image." She claims this is done in order "to colonize feminist identification, culture, politics and sexuality," adding: "All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."

tl;dr

Transwomen are men, tools of the patriarchy, who appropriate female bodies in order to rape them and use male privilege to further the patriarchy's agenda.

That hurts to read from people who I would normally consider an ally. There's some great quotes from the other authors I mentioned too. Let it be clear that I have no problem with feminism in general. It's still needed in our society. But these women...

[Erydan Ouragan]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive."

Now that's just cult-level, grade A fanaticism.

[Lune]

I've never really seen feminism address this, but what are we supposed to do when men and women are finally equal, but women are still the sole sexual selectors? I don't think women have any fucking clue how hard it is to compete with every other male in any given woman's life for that #1 spot. That competition pervades every man's life. It causes way higher expectations for men. Biologically, a lot of what makes women attractive to men is out of their control. With men it's almost the opposite, the things that make us desirable are almost entirely in our control.

So now we're going to have men and women being given the same opportunities, competing with each other for the same jobs, and fulfilling the same roles, and we're still going to expect men to perform better. And when they do, we're going to vilify them for it. We know this reproductive dynamic plays a role on our evolutionary psychology: (Sex Differences in Everyday Risk-Taking Behavior in Humans), (Is risk taking used as a cue in mate choice?)

As long as your economic/status performance is a huge part of your desirability as a man, aren't men going to outperform women, who don't have that motivation? Or am I completely wrong? What can feminism do to address the inherent inequality of human sexual biology?

I mean, look at Duane. Duane's got some sick fucking dancing skills:

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Duane knows that if he dances better than all the other guys, he's got a much better chance to get his dick wet with that little cocktease there in the red skirt. So Duane practices a bit more and becomes the best dancer in the room. Does that mean Duane is oppressing all the women? Do we need to start offering those girls extra dance classes so they are 'properly represented' among the room's best dancers?

I'm not attributing the totality of gender inequality to this one thing, but I think it plays a role, perhaps a big one, and it's something I've never seen satisfactorily answered by feminist thought. How do you reform human sexuality?

[Lune]

This article talks a little about ^, and has the kind of thinking I wish I saw more of. Fairness.

Maybe in this environment where we are safely sequestered behind screens, we can get past some of the lingering gender-based “rules” that dominate the “How to Catch a Man” playbooks of yore. Maybe instead we can learn to treat each other as equal players of a very silly game that we all secretly take quite seriously. Wouldn’t that be nice?

But it seems quite clear to me that we’re not there yet. I’m partly to blame, and you probably are too. I’m a feminist, sex-positive 21st century lady whose photos include me posing in a Rosie the Riveter Halloween costume. I write about gender on the Internet for crying out loud! But every day, when I log into the dating site of my choice, I play the passive role, the receiver of attention, the awaiter of messages. I go to my inbox and see who wants to talk to me and then I choose to whom I’ll respond. Sometimes I send a “thanks but no thanks” to particularly sweet messages, but usually I’m so overwhelmed by the new things to read and the new choices in front of me that I ignore those nice guys too. Basically, I act like an entitled jerk who can pull puppet strings and make OkCupid dance for me however I please.

This is not the behavior I would expect of a feminist, sex-positive 21st century lady. It’s not behavior I’m particularly proud of either. Why don’t I write messages first? Why don’t I reach out to the dudes with the funny handles and good taste in books, the ones who post pictures with goofy faces and like tacos almost as much as I like tacos? Why do I not respond politely to every message, even the ones I’m not interested in? Why do I alternate between playing the damsel and the playing the demanding entitled a**hole? Because it’s just so easy.

[paulgiamatti]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Transwomen are men, tools of the patriarchy, who appropriate female bodies in order to rape them and use male privilege to further the patriarchy's agenda.

That hurts to read from people who I would normally consider an ally. There's some great quotes from the other authors I mentioned too. Let it be clear that I have no problem with feminism in general. It's still needed in our society. But these women...

I mean, I have no doubt that there are radical feminists who try to marginalize transgenderism, I'm just saying I don't read them and I don't pay any attention to them. As soon as I encounter, "All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact", I'd close the book and forget about it.

It's like, just because a dude posts a selfie on Instagram holding up a sign that says, "This is what a feminist looks like", that doesn't make him a feminist, you know? So many self-proclaimed "feminists" are probably just abusers or assholes who don't know the first thing about feminist theory or women's issues, or even just being an intellectually honest person in general.

But yeah, I'm not trying to trivialize the fact that it's been a problem. I have the luxury of identifying with the gender I was assigned before birth, so I can't really speak about what it's like to be a transgendered person and how feminism has affected the trans movement with any authority. I'm just saying that even though an author has made significant contributions to feminism, they're still capable of saying horrifyingly discriminatory and indefensible shit that should absolutely be either criticized harshly or outright ignored.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Originally Posted by paulgiamatti [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, I have no doubt that there are radical feminists who try to marginalize transgenderism, I'm just saying I don't read them and I don't pay any attention to them. As soon as I encounter, "All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact", I'd close the book and forget about it.

It's like, just because a dude posts a selfie on Instagram holding up a sign that says, "This is what a feminist looks like", that doesn't make him a feminist, you know? So many self-proclaimed "feminists" are probably just abusers or assholes who don't know the first thing about feminist theory or women's issues, or even just being an intellectually honest person in general.

But yeah, I'm not trying to trivialize the fact that it's been a problem. I have the luxury of identifying with the gender I was assigned before birth, so I can't really speak about what it's like to be a transgendered person and how feminism has affected the trans movement with any authority. I'm just saying that even though an author has made significant contributions to feminism, they're still capable of saying horrifyingly discriminatory and indefensible shit that should absolutely be either criticized harshly or outright ignored.

Criticise a feminist? That's very dangerous thinking Paul

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[Ezalor]

having seen what kagatob looks like it does it surprise anyone that he hates women?

[Glenzig]

Originally Posted by Ezalor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

having seen what kagatob looks like it does it surprise anyone that he hates women?

He doesn't hate them. He hates himself and projects that hatred onto them. Its different. Totally cool and normal.

[Cecily]

That's really easy to say when you haven't posted your own pics here.