Circle kiting needs to be nerfed

[Crawdad]

Can't believe this is 11 pages...

If Bard AE kiting were "a thing" back on live, you would've seen at least Some people complaining about it on Sony forums. If someone can find them I'd Love to read it, but I don't ever remember reading a AE kite guide on the Concert Hall backintheday. Swarm Kiting was very popular, so was Chant, fear and (ugh) even Bellow kiting at low levels, but AE kiting isn't "classic" like other forms of kiting.

Originally Posted by Daldaen

https://web.archive.org/web/20010210...COD_kiting.htm

January 2000 Post about how to swarm kite with PBAE songs.

I don't buy your "only 10 bards knew this" nonsense. It was very commonplace for bards to kite 1999-2001. Computers couldn't handle 100 mob kites back then probably, but bards certainly were kiting.

Link says:
"Using this technique, I can easily kite several yellow mobs simultaneously. Also, I've made a fortune kiting 3, 4, or 5 wisps at a clip and then selling the lightstones."
" If you get too close and one red mob stuns you, having his 2 or 3 red buddies pounding"

Your source is from a level 17 bard AE kiting 3-5 will-o-wisps. Is this all we have to support AE kiting? There is a Huge difference in kiting 3-5 wisps around versus 50-100, both technically and logistically. He doesn't even have the 18 AE song yet, which is when you can actually/realistically start AE kiting like its done on p99.

People didn't take risks on Live like they do here. OT/Loio were Very Popular during Live, and everyone would've had QQ threads if stuff like this happened with regularity. Like I said, I remember seeing other bards AE kite during PoP for Exp/plat, and and I'm sure there were some people who knew about it before, but to suggest that it was "Classic" like other kinds of kiting is crazytalk to me. There's a huge difference in AE kiting a few greens for money and AE kiting the entire OT to PL a_TMO_alt04.

Like I said, I'd love to see some old threads about this topic, circa 2000-2002, even. I'll eat my hat for a Concert Hall WayBackMachine post.


Just to clarify: Classic Mechanics vs Classic Gameplay, 15 year old game, Emergent gameplay, qq. I don't want AE kiting removed, just don't be a douche. Its not just about you killing every mob in the zone, its the taking half an hour to wrangle them up/DoT them down/wait for respawn that blows.

Also take bards into your group, they're super cool dog.

[Altereagle]

Have you ever tried kiting as a bard?

You should! You only need to be level 2 to try. And it's just one of the many ways you can enjoy this great game.

It takes patience, but every class has their own way of playing.

I love this ancient debate that has never and will never resolve itself like all threads that lead off with "nerf X Y or Z" in the title.

Relax and play the game dude.

And if I hear you talking bout' me on this forum again we will have to settle this like men in the arena!

Bassman

[coki]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Functionally they are the same - whereas true swarm kiting is not possible on this server, circle kiting is and functionally does the same thing.

I've done it with the velious ui (ie no bandolier or external inventory window). Ball mice were only marginally worse than opticals (barely so with a pad), the main thing was they required consistent cleaning.

I don't assume your desktop is bad, but my laptop is 6 years old and didn't have problems. Dunno what to tell you.

that is simply not true at all about ball mice being worse then optical, specially back then, you can ask any oldschool FPS pro

[Jaleth]

Originally Posted by sox7d [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTFY.

Kind of laughable that someone would equate holding 40+ mobs over 20 minutes to a necro soloing 1 at a time every 1-2 minutes or a druid/wizard killing 4 mobs every 5 minutes.

Anyways, shit's not gonna change, just peel mobs off the assholish bards, wtf are they gonna do about it?

This.

If I'm in the OT with my wizard and can't find a single mob anywhere in sight, I just go towards the middle of the zone. When I see a bard pulling 20+ mobs across the zone with nothing left for pickings, I just Staff of Temperate Flux the fuck out of that swarm, and pull off 4 mobs of my choosing.

[Biaxil]

play on red, kill bard, problem solved.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Biaxil [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

play on red, kill bard, problem solved.

Heh, that DOES happen on there. And lots of loot to boot. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Priceline]

Didn't read much of thread other then this page..

Its not classic, but its also not going away, deal with it. I know its not classic as I played a bard on live. Bards were a rare class to see on the nameless, probably more shadowknights and paladins running around. We all knew each other and talked regularly.

This AoE kiting business wasn't a thing back in kunark/velious. What was a thing? Swarm/fear/chant kiting when solo.

Its not going away, sux bards gonna aoe kite, good bards gonna group.

No more pages, only dreams.

[Jauna]

Wasnt bards AoE/DoT kiting nerfed mid-kunark? I remember this getting nerfed hard way back when and is still in effect today where moving mobs dont take bard DoT damage

[Priceline]

Originally Posted by Jauna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wasnt bards AoE/DoT kiting nerfed mid-kunark? I remember this getting nerfed hard way back when and is still in effect today where moving mobs dont take bard DoT damage

Never used the aoe dots but the single target chant line worked while the mobs were moving. I did that a lot while recovering from back to back swarm kites, that 1 mana/tick bliss

[Crawdad]

Originally Posted by Jauna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wasnt bards AoE/DoT kiting nerfed mid-kunark? I remember this getting nerfed hard way back when and is still in effect today where moving mobs dont take bard DoT damage

They nerfed moving DoT damage during Kunark, but it effected everybody the same; 66% for moving, 100% for feared/rooted. Bard AE kiting was nerfed in 2004, no idea what expansion though.

https://forums.station.sony.com/eq/i...ng-nerf.97320/

ARCHIVED-inque_adu_vz, Sep 3, 2004
Brenlo speaks at EQDiva regarding the nerfing of Swarm-Kiting abilities in an upcoming Live patch:

Howdy folks,

This will indeed be a change that makes it to the Live servers, during our next scheduled update on September 14th.

We feel that the current implimentation of AE kiting gave bards an unfair advantage in experience gain. It is our opinion that the changes currently on test will resolve this issue, while retaining both the Bards solo abilities and raid utility.

Sorry folks but no more kiting 20 mobs at a time.

Here's the actual patch from September 14, 2004:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/hist...es-2004-2.html

- Bard PBAoE spells will no longer damage targets that are moving,
however any other spell effects from the PBAoE spell will still be
applied to the targets as usual.

If you keep reading...

They fix something that 4 bards per server total do, but are not touching the absolute unadulterated hacking that goes on regularly.
ARCHIVED-Astrall-TZ, Sep 9, 2004

Not classic but I giggled.

Just to be fair, I wanted to find the oldest post I could for AOE/PBAE/AE Kiting.
http://thedruidsgrove.org/archive/eq/t-251.html

Tilien Venator 07-24-2003, 07:06 PM
Seen bards Swarming 25-30 mobs in Fire, getting 6aap per kite. Was sick seeing him calling out ding every couple of ticks.

...

kineada 07-25-2003, 12:22 PM
We used to have low AA knights or clerics group with our bards during off hours and PL them. Our bards laugh at us when we tout off obout getting an AA every 30mins grouping at first castle.

Of course, this was nerfed. Now, bards can only kite 10 mobs at a time. Which roughly equates to 3 AA's every 30mins in PoFire. None of our bards do this anymore by the bye. I think after the novelty wore off, they went back to drinking heavily while singing some ditty about Fennin Ro.

PoFire AE kiting was what I was referring to on page ~3. Sounds like it was nerfed before Sept 2004 to limit number of mobs? Still not classic, but I still don't see any tangible proof that more than a handful would AE kite on Live. On the plus side, here's some PL proof...in PoP.

Soo I kept digging, and found in this druid PBAE Guide:
https://web.archive.org/web/20030518...picID=88.topic

ordieth117 (4/30/02 10:29 pm)
PBAE kiting Bards have been doing this for a while. It's tough. The timing has to be -exact-, that's for sure, and we tend to do it on unsnared mobs (no long lasting snare). I have tried on greens in EJ, and I get pretty beat up doing it, but it sure is fun.

So at least as far back as 2002/Luclin, but we still need a better answer for what "for a while" is. Again I get the vibe these bards are kiting greens/farming with AE kiting, not Exping.

Also, call me a conspiracy theorist, but I find it hard to believe Thott wouldn't have written about AE kiting if it were popular. Seems like it would've made a fun graph.
http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/powercurves.php

Anyways, I'll keep looking since I'd rather do this than work, though the crowd's gone.