Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic. - Page 11

JayN · #**101** 09-08-2013, 03:18 AM

Sharing - someone had the great idea to split their guild into two; so they could get twice the share... at that point sharing become a scam more then a fair rotation

BREAK THE DEAL FACE THE WHEEL

Tasslehofp99 · #**102** 09-08-2013, 03:22 AM

You realize the pop was at this level around kunark release as well...abd dropped down to less than 500 players average on peak hours? It happened before kunark came out too, probably will happen again. Ultimately p99has a high turnover rate, people come and go, some come back, some don't.

This is due to the fact that once you level up and do everything you can on your own/in groups...there is nothing left. Its either join TMO, or join another guild who hopes to raid and get kill rarely, or buy your loot from TMO.

Now...I understand there are many factors behind the population fluctuating, but why wouldn't we do what we can to minimize it? Why wouldn't we try to keep people around as long as possible!

I mean look at rapture for example..they came, they conqueres a little bit, but ultimately they realize end game raiding on p99 is a cruel lesson in futility. Why? Because the rules are not fairly enforced and we have nonclassic mechanics such as variance and sanctioned training in vp.

You can't honestly say that you have been around long enough to see TMO single handedly push hundreds of players away from p99 and still think nothing is wrong with p99 raiding.

JayN · #**103** 09-08-2013, 03:25 AM

You can't honestly say that you have been around long enough to see TMO single handedly push hundreds of players away from p99 and still think nothing is wrong with p99 raiding.

anything to destroy TMO anything, keep it up Hoff youll win

W8Gamer · #**104** 09-08-2013, 06:09 AM

Ok, I'm not even sure where to begin with this post. First, let me just say that I'm a returning player after a 2 year hiatus. I just returned to p99 this year. So, I'm not exactly current on all the raid/guild drama that has occurred on the server. However, from reading several of the raiding discussions and hearing some of the history of TMO, I've gathered this much (by all means correct me if I'm wrong):

Training in VP has been allowed since the zone opened. Raiding rules have always been fairly the same aside from a few changes like variance, FTE, and what not. For the most part though there has not been some substantial, game changing rule. Now, TMO has not always been the top guild. From what I understand, TMO at one point in time used to wipe breaking into fear. I've read a few posts of people mocking TMO for this. So, obviously they have not always been as strong as they are now.

What does that tell me? That tells me that TMO had to work to get to where they are within the same rules and guildelines that are currently implemented. TMO had to deal with the same trains any other guild has to deal with when they raid VP.

With that said, let me address some of these ridiculous analogies and comparisons. First off, comparing the raiding scene of EverQuest (a game) to an economic monopoly or the gas wars is just plain retarded (for lack of a better word). Almost as retarded as comparing it to a room of people where not sharing food could result in the death of another person. I'm pretty sure no one on the server is going to die if they don't get their raid loots. These are terrible examples for one reason. EverQuest is a GAME. It's a GAME. A GAME! How can you compare a GAME to the economy of the real world? In the GAME of EverQuest I can choose whether or not I am affected by simply not playing or not participating in certain aspects of the game and it having no impact on my livelihood. I had started to type up an in-depth explanation, but in all honesty, if you can't see how stupid this sounds, then nothing I say is going to change your mind or feelings about this.

A proper comparison of EverQuest (again, a game) would be to yet another type of game. The comparison to chess was actually quite good, because like EverQuest, chess is a game. Ever heard of the saying comparing apples to oranges? That's what you're doing with the EQ raiding scene and the gas wars (lol). How about we stick to apples? So, what would be a good comparison for the raiding scene of EQ? In my opinion, Kind of the Hill. Ever play? See, in King of the Hill, a certain spot is deemed "the hill" and the "King" is whoever stands on it. The objective of the other players is to knock the king off the hill and control it themselves. Whoever controls the hill the longest is winning or wins the game. That's what TMO is right now. They are the King of the Hill. They weren't at one point though. See, they played the game and they knocked the previous king off the hill. And because they are so good at the game, everyone wants to cry out for a rule change. However, what rule changes were made when TMO wasn't the king? Was the previous king told to step down from the hill and give TMO a chance at king?

Like most games, there are winners and losers. The beauty of EverQuest is you get to decide how you win at the game. For me, winning is being the best on the server. That's my win and I'm pretty sure TMO shares in the same sentiment. They want to win and winning to them is being the strongest guild and in order to be the strongest guild, they need to kill the strongest mobs. So, why exactly should they share? Why should they favor a rotation? They played the game within the rules and are currently winning. It's like if we were playing basketball and TMO just scored a 3 pointer, you expect them to give you the ball and allow you to try and shoot a 3 pointer except you want a change in the rules. You want to say TMO isn't allowed to steal the ball or attempt to block your shot even though you were absolutely allowed to do it to them, but either didn't or just weren't able too.

Anyway, this seems classic to me. On E`Ci Reconstructed was the boss guild and they controlled the end game and weren't content with sharing with any competing guilds. And why should they? We are playing a game aren't we? I'm not about to let the opposing team shoot 3 pointers all day long uncontested and I'm damn sure not about to let that one kid stand on my hill for too long either. Play the game.

Quientus · #**105** 09-08-2013, 06:31 AM

Actually on E'Ci Recon sorta "shared" the Top spot with Vane ... Recon was US based and Vane was Asian (player for player, Vane blew Recon away, but Recon had alot more members) ...

I see both sides, and as I'm not an activate player here I really can't form an opinion either Way, except to say I don't understand the part about training in Veeshans Peak ... ;-)

W8Gamer · #**106** 09-08-2013, 06:40 AM

Now that you mention Vane, I do remember that guild, but I didn't know much about them. Being an Asian based game makes since as to why I didn't. I just remember hearing people complain about Recon moving on raid targets with little regard for the smaller guilds.

Either way ya look at it, typically the high end was reserved for 1 to 2 guilds at the most.

Autotune · #**107** 09-08-2013, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W8Gamer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, I'm not even sure where to begin with this post. First, let me just say that I'm a returning player after a 2 year hiatus. I just returned to p99 this year. So, I'm not exactly current on all the raid/guild drama that has occurred on the server. However, from reading several of the raiding discussions and hearing some of the history of TMO, I've gathered this much (by all means correct me if I'm wrong):

Training in VP has been allowed since the zone opened. Raiding rules have always been fairly the same aside from a few changes like variance, FTE, and what not. For the most part though there has not been some substantial, game changing rule. Now, TMO has not always been the top guild. From what I understand, TMO at one point in time used to wipe breaking into fear. I've read a few posts of people mocking TMO for this. So, obviously they have not always been as strong as they are now.

What does that tell me? That tells me that TMO had to work to get to where they are within the same rules and guildelines that are currently implemented. TMO had to deal with the same trains any other guild has to deal with when they raid VP.

With that said, let me address some of these ridiculous analogies and comparisons. First off, comparing the raiding scene of EverQuest (a game) to an economic monopoly or the gas wars is just plain retarded (for lack of a better word). Almost as retarded as comparing it to a room of people where not sharing food could result in the death of another person. I'm pretty sure no one on the server is going to die if they don't get their raid loots. These are terrible examples for one reason. EverQuest is a GAME. It's a GAME. A GAME! How can you compare a GAME to the economy of the real world? In the GAME of EverQuest I can choose whether or not I am affected by simply not playing or not participating in certain aspects of the game and it having no impact on my livelihood. I had started to type up an in-depth explanation, but in all honesty, if you can't see how stupid this sounds, then nothing I say is going to change your mind or feelings about this.

A proper comparison of EverQuest (again, a game) would be to yet another type of game. The comparison to chess was actually quite good, because like EverQuest, chess is a game. Ever heard of the saying comparing apples to oranges? That's what you're doing with the EQ raiding scene and the gas wars (lol). How about we stick to apples? So, what would be a good comparison for the raiding scene of EQ? In my opinion, Kind of the Hill. Ever play? See, in King of the Hill, a certain spot is deemed "the hill" and the "King" is whoever stands on it. The objective of the other players is to knock the king off the hill and control it themselves. Whoever controls the hill the longest is winning or wins the game. That's what TMO is right now. They are the King of the Hill. They weren't at one point though. See, they played the game and they knocked the previous king off the hill. And because they are so good at the game, everyone wants to cry out for a rule change. However, what rule changes were made when TMO wasn't the king? Was the previous king told to step down from the hill and give TMO a chance at king?

Like most games, there are winners and losers. The beauty of EverQuest is you get to decide how you win at the game. For me, winning is being the best on the server. That's my win and I'm pretty sure TMO shares in the same sentiment. They want to win and winning to them is being the strongest guild and in order to be the strongest guild, they need to kill the strongest mobs. So, why exactly should they share? Why should they favor a rotation? They played the game within the rules and are currently winning. It's like if we were playing basketball and TMO just scored a 3 pointer, you expect them to give you the ball and allow you to try and shoot a 3 pointer except you want a change in the rules. You want to say TMO isn't allowed to steal the ball or attempt to block your shot even though you were absolutely allowed to do it to them, but either didn't or just weren't able too.

Anyway, this seems classic to me. On E`Ci Reconstructed was the boss guild and they controlled the end game and weren't content with sharing with any competing guilds. And why should they? We are playing a game aren't we? I'm not about to let the opposing team shoot 3 pointers all day long uncontested and I'm damn sure not about to let that one kid stand on my hill for too long either. Play the game.

This is pretty much spot on.

However, a correction and point of interest, VP was released and it was under a mandatory "rotation" of sorts. IB and TMO rolled off for dragons and Rogean/Nilbog watched the encounters to see how they functioned.

Most people like to think it was staff giving TMO dragons/loot, but actually they just didn't want to deal with IB and TMO's crap for hours on end just to see how their dragons were going to hold up.

W8Gamer · #**108** 09-08-2013, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is pretty much spot on.

However, a correction and point of interest, VP was released and it was under a mandatory "rotation" of sorts. IB and TMO rolled off for dragons and Rogean/Nilbog watched the encounters to see how they functioned.

Most people like to think it was staff giving TMO dragons/loot, but actually they just didn't want to deal with IB and TMO's crap for hours on end just to see how their dragons were going to hold up.

Ok, thanks for the correction. Like I said, I don't know all of the history/drama.

None the less, I just don't understand where the unfairness in the rules are. People are free to train TMO all day long in VP without repercussion. I get that most people don't like training, but those are the rules of the game. If TMO can operate within them, anyone else can. FE got the upper hand once before. So, do it again.

Masq · #**109** 09-08-2013, 07:32 AM

Solution is simple and I'm not even a raider.

a) all raid bosses respawn at the same time
b) all players logged out in the vicinity of raid bosses spawn points are teleported X distance away.

While this won't fix everything, surely it will solve several problems. Profit?

Tasslehofp99 · #**110** 09-08-2013, 07:33 AM

The unfair part is that rules aren't enforced fairly. Only FE has been suspended for breaking rules while TMO hasn't.

Most recently there was an incident where TMO trained us at trak, we fraps/petition. Then apparently (wasn't there for this) later that day FE trained TMO at VS pit.

So...in the past FE was asked to sit out a trak spawn for training TMO. Why was TMO not asked to sit out the following trak after they trained us?

The reason given was that our train at VS and their train at trak equaled out to "a wash" even though in the past we had been suspended from trak for training. What should have happened here was FE sits out a vs for training there, tmo sits out a trak for training there.

This is the inconsistency in the rules that I'm referring to. If a guild trains they should follow the previous precedent which was: the offending guild sits out the next spawn of whatever mob they trained at. FE was suspended for training trak, why wasn't TMO? Venril sathir happened later and shouls have been irrelevant to the trak encounter.

Not to mention I think half the server has been trained by tortue and that guy isn't suspended.