Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[W8Gamer]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally think what W8gamer posted was spot on and that it just completely went over Morganders head.

I think you're right. Therefore, I won't respond. As I said in the post, if you can't see it, then there is no getting through to you.

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing worth adding is how TMO went from not being able to break fear and wiping to Draco despite using Ivandyrs Hoops to the top guild. They merged with the former #2 raiding guild (Fusion/Dark Ascension etc) and began to challenge the #1 guild (Transatlantic Rampage/Inglourious Basterds etc) on Trakanon so that they could get keys to VP before it opened since it was delayed about 8 months on this server. More than half a year of mostly equal competition, both guilds were sitting on a 1 week raid suspension handed down by former GM Amelinda.

In the middle of that suspension, without notifying anybody from any other guilds, Amelinda secretly lifted TMO's raid suspension and this enraged the other guild at the time (renamed Inglourious Basterds again by this point) to stop playing on the server.

It was later revealed that a member of TMO (quickfingers aka tiggle) was Amelinda's girlfriend, and it was also revealed that Amelinda had taken bribes from members of the community that were selling things for USD.

In threads such as this TMO will typically try to stand behind their reason of "we had to play by these rules to achieve what we did, and so should you" but will conveniently leave out details such as how they came into being the undisputed #1 guild on the server. Since then they've only grown stronger.

Disregarding all logic for why the current non-classic raid scene inside of VP should be made better and ignoring all arguments for it (because the scene currently favors them and only them).

Just thought that may be worth mentioning as to why the majority of players hate the current raid scene, think it unfair, and believe a change to a more-classic and PVE friendly end-game would be beneficial and the best route.

Ok, now if this is true (and I have no idea if it is. I wasn't around for all this stuff), then it sounds to me that you all's problem isn't with the rules, but the referees (or the one referee, Amelinda).

My argument still stands in that the rules apply to everyone equally. Just as TMO can train you in VP, you are free to train TMO. I don't understand how anyone sees that as unfair? I hear you saying that what happened in the past was unfair, and if that's how it went down, then I don't disagree. However, what does what happened then have to do with the rule of training now? Did FE beat TMO out on a VP dragon or not? If they did, then that is proof alone that the system does not solely favor TMO. That TMO can in fact be beat at their own game.

So, what's the problem then? The problem isn't the rules. Just read through every thread about this and the problem is easy to identify. Allow me to point it out to you as I've read it over and over and over. Majority of people don't want to camp out at targets. Majority of people don't want to devote their EQ time to getting to a raid target first. A lot of people find that aspect not fun and not enjoyable. Well I have some unfortunate news, not everyone feels that way. Some folks enjoy camping out a target to make sure they get the first kill. There also those that maybe don't find it enjoyable but are so dedicated to getting that kill will do it anyway. That's what it takes. It takes that level of dedication and desire. I just don't see this magical rule change that is going to stop the guild with the most dedication and desire to achieve their goals.

They will find a way because that's what they do. They'll split raid forces, poop-sock, and whatever else is needed to get that kill. And so long as everyone else isn't prepared to go the lengths TMO is, you'll always be behind. Either way it goes, you are going to have to play the game as good if not better than TMO. Otherwise, TMO will stay on top, or whoever the top guild is for that matter. And that's exactly how it was on live. The guild with the most dedication stayed on top. So, the problem isn't the rules. The rules apply to TMO just like everyone else (and if they don't, a rule change isn't going to fix it because the problem is with the refs). So, the problem is lack of desire/dedication by the competition.

Now, que the people to enter the thread and talk about in order to be that dedicated to a 13 year old elf simulator, you have to be a fat, basement dwelling, slob with no life and no achievements lol. Love those posts as they very rarely apply to those in the raid scene.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by W8Gamer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There also those that maybe don't find it enjoyable but are so dedicated to getting that kill will do it anyway. That's what it takes. It takes that level of dedication and desire. I just don't see this magical rule change that is going to stop the guild with the most dedication and desire to achieve their goals.

They will find a way because that's what they do. They'll split raid forces, poop-sock, and whatever else is needed to get that kill. And so long as everyone else isn't prepared to go the lengths TMO is, you'll always be behind. Either way it goes, you are going to have to play the game as good if not better than TMO. Otherwise, TMO will stay on top, or whoever the top guild is for that matter. And that's exactly how it was on live. The guild with the most dedication stayed on top. So, the problem isn't the rules. The rules apply to TMO just like everyone else (and if they don't, a rule change isn't going to fix it because the problem is with the refs). So, the problem is lack of desire/dedication by the competition.

I believe you've actually detailed the problem. The problem is that there are players who will, as you put it, word for word: "and whatever else is needed to get that kill."

You would have some people doing this if there weren't any rules at all for anything on this server. That doesn't make it right, nor the best thing for the community or the server.

If there was no rule on training, then training and killing someone just so YOU can get dibs on the named doesn't make it right.

Honestly if you can't see that or agree with it, then I have nothing at all else to say to you.

"I do right, because there needs be no reason. I do wrong, because I want."

The basis for definition in contrasting a child and an adult is that maturity lies in the adult. Maturity is in knowing when to be selfless even at your own expense. Immaturity is in acting on impulse when it benefits you, regardless of another's expense.

This is truly not a hard concept. Look at the real world. People will break the rules just to "win" even in competitions as serious as the world Olympics. People will use steroids to win time and again, because they've followed your credence. Yet everyone the world over knows that doing so is against the rules in universally every single applicable situation.

In fact, what I've outlined above in red seems to me to be a picture perfect sentiment to uphold what I'm stating here. To compare analogies: "So long as Olympians are not willing to take steroids (to go the lengths), you'll always be behind."

Doing whatever it takes to win is NOT justifiable by anything but greed. You should'v learned that in grade school, or before.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by W8Gamer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're right. Therefore, I won't respond. As I said in the post, if you can't see it, then there is no getting through to you.



Ok, now if this is true (and I have no idea if it is. I wasn't around for all this stuff), then it sounds to me that you all's problem isn't with the rules, but the referees (or the one referee, Amelinda).

My argument still stands in that the rules apply to everyone equally. Just as TMO can train you in VP, you are free to train TMO. I don't understand how anyone sees that as unfair? I hear you saying that what happened in the past was unfair, and if that's how it went down, then I don't disagree. However, what does what happened then have to do with the rule of training now? Did FE beat TMO out on a VP dragon or not? If they did, then that is proof alone that the system does not solely favor TMO. That TMO can in fact be beat at their own game.

So, what's the problem then? The problem isn't the rules. Just read through every thread about this and the problem is easy to identify. Allow me to point it out to you as I've read it over and over and over. Majority of people don't want to camp out at targets. Majority of people don't want to devote their EQ time to getting to a raid target first. A lot of people find that aspect not fun and not enjoyable. Well I have some unfortunate news, not everyone feels that way. Some folks enjoy camping out a target to make sure they get the first kill. There also those that maybe don't find it enjoyable but are so dedicated to getting that kill will do it anyway. That's what it takes. It takes that level of dedication and desire. I just don't see this magical rule change that is going to stop the guild with the most dedication and desire to achieve their goals.

They will find a way because that's what they do. They'll split raid forces, poop-sock, and whatever else is needed to get that kill. And so long as everyone else isn't prepared to go the lengths TMO is, you'll always be behind. Either way it goes, you are going to have to play the game as good if not better than TMO. Otherwise, TMO will stay on top, or whoever the top guild is for that matter. And that's exactly how it was on live. The guild with the most dedication stayed on top. So, the problem isn't the rules. The rules apply to TMO just like everyone else (and if they don't, a rule change isn't going to fix it because the problem is with the refs). So, the problem is lack of desire/dedication by the competition.

Now, que the people to enter the thread and talk about in order to be that dedicated to a 13 year old elf simulator, you have to be a fat, basement dwelling, slob with no life and no achievements lol. Love those posts as they very rarely apply to those in the raid scene.

I highlighted your conflicting statements.

Consider for a minute that variance is not classic, and neither is being allowed to train people intentionally to keep them away from zones/mobs.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by JayN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't honestly say that you have been around long enough to see TMO single handedly push hundreds of players away from p99 and still think nothing is wrong with p99 raiding.

Couldn't agree more.

[Quientus]

Actually on E'Ci Recon sorta "shared" the Top spot with Vane ... Recon was US based and Vane was Asian (player for player, Vane blew Recon away, but Recon had alot more members) ...

I see both sides, and as I'm not an activate player here I really can't form an opinion either Way, except to say I don't understand the part about training in Veeshans Peak ... ;-)

[W8Gamer]

Now that you mention Vane, I do remember that guild, but I didn't know much about them. Being an Asian based game makes since as to why I didn't. I just remember hearing people complain about Recon moving on raid targets with little regard for the smaller guilds.

Either way ya look at it, typically the high end was reserved for 1 to 2 guilds at the most.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Quientus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Actually on E'Ci Recon sorta "shared" the Top spot with Vane ... Recon was US based and Vane was Asian (player for player, Vane blew Recon away, but Recon had alot more members)

Those two guilds "shared" the top spot in 2 shifts a day. They never had to really compete for anything. They didn't have to race for mob pops. It was pretty close to a complete monopoly.

More people have experienced more and gotten more on P99 than Classic. I don't understand why people complain... except greed. They want more. Its okay to never be satisfied, it keeps you coming back. But for the love of God stop saying its worse than Live.

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those two guilds "shared" the top spot in 2 shifts a day. They never had to really compete for anything. They didn't have to race for mob pops. It was pretty close to a complete monopoly.

More people have experienced more and gotten more on P99 than Classic. I don't understand why people complain... except greed. They want more. Its okay to never be satisfied, it keeps you coming back. But for the love of God stop saying its worse than Live.

Did you have a character "Rakpak" (or something along those lines) ?

And you are correct, they didn't "race for mobs" perce, however they were targetting almost the same mobs during some time ...

One of the problems and perhaps why some people feel about this the way they do, is perhaps because they are not so willing (or able) to commit the same amount of time to this game than they used to ?

Either way seems to me, its a "storm in a glass a water" really (not sure you use the same analogy in english ?).

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by Quientus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did you have a character "Rakpak" (or something along those lines) ?

no

http://eci.ofasoft.com/ if you are interested

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no

http://eci.ofasoft.com/ if you are interested

I've been on that site a while now :-)