Red and blue should be merged into one PvP server

[Silo69]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

sullon was the real pvp server i miss thee

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

This is why there cannot be one server with one set of rules. Not because of what this guy is saying is correct, but because like him many don't understand the point of PvP in a game like EQ.

It isn't supposed to be something you do on the side. It is a freedom to do what you want and not have a game restrict your actions. It is not sitting aside and letting a guild push you around because they have someone sitting at a spawn for 10 hours. You do what you want. You take what you want. It is fair, challenging, realistic, exciting, and gives the community personality.

Blue and Red is split and you can't make someone that is one way enjoy it the other way. Some people may stray from red and blue to the other because they are fed up with server drama or population problems but for the most part, some people can't handle the freedom and threat of PvP and are blue for this reason.

[Anesthia]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why there cannot be one server with one set of rules. Not because of what this guy is saying is correct, but because like him many don't understand the point of PvP in a game like EQ.

It isn't supposed to be something you do on the side. It is a freedom to do what you want and not have a game restrict your actions. It is not sitting aside and letting a guild push you around because they have someone sitting at a spawn for 10 hours. You do what you want. You take what you want. It is fair, challenging, realistic, exciting, and gives the community personality.

Blue and Red is split and you can't make someone that is one way enjoy it the other way. Some people may stray from red and blue to the other because they are fed up with server drama or population problems but for the most part, some people can't handle the freedom and threat of PvP and are blue for this reason.

Horse-shittiest comment in this thread. Completely gloss over the content of the post and fall back to the "bloob versus outlaw" argument. "Six years of SZ experience? Ignored." This isn't about sandbox (DayZ) versus carebear PvP (WoW). It's about the modern EQ PvP experience, which, if you had actually digested the content of his post, would reveal to you that a game which is specifically designed for and caters to opt-in PvP is much more popular than your Outlaw-or-Fuckoff utopia.

[Auditore]

Man, I don't understand why red players don't just play EVE. You're allowed, hell, encouraged, to fuck people over as much as you want, the combat is about 5 times more thrilling than EQ, and it's in space.

[mostbitter]

actually eve is boring and just about time invested

[Auditore]

Originally Posted by mostbitter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

actually eve is boring and just about time invested

implying everquest pvp isn't boring and just about time invested.

[mostbitter]

jousting skill has nothing to do with time invested

[Otur]

Originally Posted by ForeverLost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm of course not expecting anything like this to happen, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing. It's my opinion that PvP made EQ a much, much better game. I wish more of you could have experienced it on live. That's really why Red99 has such a poor population: you don't know what you're missing. It would have been wonderful if the dev team here had played the Zek servers, and made PvP a priority when making their classic server.

After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
There's the door, now piss off. And take that filthy pvp-server with you!

[Pyronius]

I find it funny that the original post is written from the stand point of omnipotence...

1: Red99 has a poor population - You don't know what you're missing

Uh, a lot of us do know what we are missing, and did play on red or both in vanilla... Bluebie/redtard insults aside, people are going to play what appealed to them most back in the day.

Also, in regards to population, if you want to look at a percentage of players, red currently has a much richer population than it did in vanilla.

2. After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now

Your assumption that you know the will and wants of around 1000 some people and exactly how they would react to such a thing, is pretty laughable.. considering what you want to force them into was already an option...13 years ago, and again now...

What you're suggesting parallels someone stating they should shut down the Project 1999 servers and set up a vanilla WoW emu server, and convert everyone's accounts to WoW accounts, because you personally thought WoW was a better game, and everyone that's here playing this don't actually know what they want, so you should be allowed to chose for them.

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by Pyronius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I find it funny that the original post is written from the stand point of omnipotence...

1: Red99 has a poor population - You don't know what you're missing

Uh, a lot of us do know what we are missing, and did play on red or both in vanilla... Bluebie/redtard insults aside, people are going to play what appealed to them most back in the day.

Also, in regards to population, if you want to look at a percentage of players, red currently has a much richer population than it did in vanilla.

2. After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now

Your assumption that you know the will and wants of around 1000 some people and exactly how they would react to such a thing, is pretty laughable.. considering what you want to force them into was already an option...13 years ago, and again now...

What you're suggesting parallels someone stating they should shut down the Project 1999 servers and set up a vanilla WoW emu server, and convert everyone's accounts to WoW accounts, because you personally thought WoW was a better game, and everyone that's here playing this don't actually know what they want, so you should be allowed to chose for them.

when you said vanilla i couldn't help but want something vanilla flavored.

^^this comment means about as much as the OP