Red and blue should be merged into one PvP server

[Diggles]

ay man like i said, you're the one gettin a lil uppity, go smoke a joint and play everquest

o wait servers dead

[Bamzal Sherbet]

funny how much rl shit is brought up in this game forum

[mwatt]

The post made by the OP was wishful self-centered thinking on the part of the poster (yeah, I know, he is trying to "help" us bloobies discover the joy that is PVP). It was also a sad commentary on what the MMO world has become.

As MMOs have evolved, PVP has become more and more prevalent - probably partly due to the success of WoW and also partly due to the fact that there is a large percentage of the gaming population that enjoy PVP.

Personally, I don't like PVP and I don't like the baggage that comes along with it. I know there is a significant percentage of MMO players who feel similarly. Classic EQ is one of the last bastions of "mostly pure" PVE. Why in the HELL do people feel the need to try and take even that away? The damned Red server is there, isn't that enough? Oh no, we should all be forced to play PVP. The nerve of some people.

[Cippofra]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The post made by the OP was wishful self-centered thinking on the part of the poster (yeah, I know, he is trying to "help" us bloobies discover the joy that is PVP). It was also a sad commentary on what the MMO world has become.

As MMOs have evolved, PVP has become more and more prevalent - probably partly due to the success of WoW and also partly due to the fact that there is a large percentage of the gaming population that enjoy PVP.

Personally, I don't like PVP and I don't like the baggage that comes along with it. I know there is a significant percentage of MMO players who feel similarly. Classic EQ is one of the last bastions of "mostly pure" PVE. Why in the HELL do people feel the need to try and take even that away? The damned Red server is there, isn't that enough? Oh no, we should all be forced to play PVP. The nerve of some people.

WoW's pvp is challenging. Theres collective goals to work towards. And it's optional. Really even optional on a pvp server, where I played. The few pvp encounters I had in the pve world were just a little bit of fun. Someone might kill you before they zone into an instance, but they'd move on and forget about you. EQ's pvp is about making it as difficult as possible for people under you to advance to the point that you are at. People don't move on because being able to kill a healer 4 levels below you over and over for an hour is enjoyable when you aren't good enough or too selfish to hack it in the pve world.

[Anesthia]

Originally Posted by Cippofra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW's pvp is challenging. Theres collective goals to work towards. And it's optional. Really even optional on a pvp server, where I played. The few pvp encounters I had in the pve world were just a little bit of fun. Someone might kill you before they zone into an instance, but they'd move on and forget about you. EQ's pvp is about making it as difficult as possible for people under you to advance to the point that you are at. People don't move on because being able to kill a healer 4 levels below you over and over for an hour is enjoyable when you aren't good enough or too selfish to hack it in the pve world.

Yes and no on WoW's PvP being challenging (I'm splitting hairs), but I would agree that it attracts a long-term playerbase much more than EQ's PvP. There are several different approaches that could be taken to make EQ PvP more appealing, but basically anything that isn't classic derails the nostalgia train, which is what pretty much everybody on red/blue rides. If red wants to reach 100+ regularly, it would need people who care more about PvP for PvP's sake than griefing just because they can.

[mostbitter]

people would care more if there wasnt an exp pen on pvp death

[Diggles]

Originally Posted by Cippofra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW's pvp is challenging. Theres collective goals to work towards. And it's optional. Really even optional on a pvp server, where I played. The few pvp encounters I had in the pve world were just a little bit of fun. Someone might kill you before they zone into an instance, but they'd move on and forget about you. EQ's pvp is about making it as difficult as possible for people under you to advance to the point that you are at. People don't move on because being able to kill a healer 4 levels below you over and over for an hour is enjoyable when you aren't good enough or too selfish to hack it in the pve world.

as a current wow player

no, wow's pvp isnt challenging. Everything is gear/composition based.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by ForeverLost [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm of course not expecting anything like this to happen, but that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing. It's my opinion that PvP made EQ a much, much better game. I wish more of you could have experienced it on live. That's really why Red99 has such a poor population: you don't know what you're missing. It would have been wonderful if the dev team here had played the Zek servers, and made PvP a priority when making their classic server.

After the merge, even once the unadventurous bluebies quit, we would have a healthy population of 400+. And that would be much preferred over what we have now [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

[Silo69]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

sullon was the real pvp server i miss thee

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played on Sullon Zek between 2001-2005 and Zek thereafter. On SZ, anybody of any level could kill you. That's as tough as it gets. So I'm not going to say the things I'm going to say from a foxhole. I'm saying what I'm saying with confidence and I'll stand out in the open because I'm speaking with some experience.

The primary reason the Zek servers didn't do well:
1) Open-world PvP in MMORPGs is not popular

That's the #1 reason. Players prefer things like the battlegrounds type of PvP. That way they can sample PvP when they want to and can ignore it the rest of the time. With open-world PvP ther'es no options: you're in or you're out. What made it worse in EQ was the lack of istances early on.

I'd say the second reason is this:
1) PvP in Everquest was not the priority

Everquest was no designed explicitly to be PvP-oriented. From what I understand, they only added the PvP servers in the last stages of development as optional forms of gameplay.

I've played on red p1999 and like the server, but I'm not surprised by its population one bit. In virtually every single MMORPG I've played the PvP servers have smaller population. Generally this is because of open-world pvp. This is not to say that I myself don't like open-world pvp. Actually, the truth is I do like it.

Most players aren't hardcore enough to brave the world without some protections. Even I had protections because I was a ranger. I could track and see them before they surprised me, for example. Just imagine if I had been a warrior and couldn't fine a group. What would I do in a PvP situation? Lots of playres on the PvP server(s) will select solo-able classes and get a high level and then create some "pure" alts afterwards. But just as many don't and thus many of them end up leaving and I suspect it has a major impact.

The point I make in the previous paragraph is an important one. A game that's heavily group-dependent and population-sensitive and not tuned for PvP specifically can be very vulnerable.

This is why there cannot be one server with one set of rules. Not because of what this guy is saying is correct, but because like him many don't understand the point of PvP in a game like EQ.

It isn't supposed to be something you do on the side. It is a freedom to do what you want and not have a game restrict your actions. It is not sitting aside and letting a guild push you around because they have someone sitting at a spawn for 10 hours. You do what you want. You take what you want. It is fair, challenging, realistic, exciting, and gives the community personality.

Blue and Red is split and you can't make someone that is one way enjoy it the other way. Some people may stray from red and blue to the other because they are fed up with server drama or population problems but for the most part, some people can't handle the freedom and threat of PvP and are blue for this reason.