Rogue race and stats

[Jimjam]

I thought encumbrance was caused by the agility lost due to weight exceeding strength, and thereby agility acts as a secondary carry capacity... I guess I wasn't paying enough attention.

[Tethler]

Feel free to read here. Plenty of evidence (some in-era and some out of era) for sub 75 agi slowing your run speed. But again, it's easily verifiable in-game.

-Duel someone and get to very low hp and check your agi/run speed.
-Wear str gear and have a shaman cripple you so your agi drops below 75 but you aren't encumbered and check your run speed.
-Roll an ogre and keep the base 70 agi without putting in the extra 5 points and run side by side with someone that did.

I'm not going to go to the effort of making a video demonstrating these. If you don't want to believe it and you don't want to test for yourself, that's on you.

[Robersonroger38]

I would make a video, but usually only play time I get is after 7-8pm and I may kill 3-4 guard then log lol.

It’s only critical health speed that ima referring to, and it could be a % on the agility I haven’t paid that much attention . I’ll let you guys go that deep,

[DMN]

so i did two quick tests. saw how far i could run in 30 seconds on a 75 agi ogre and 70 agi ogre. could not discern any difference between them.

then i switched to a level 14 troll shaman. got myself down to just under a bubble of health(~50 hp) and again ran for 30 seconds(i think i had around 60 agi) then repeated the exact same again but this time had the agility buff on, giving a starting agility of 75.

again, no discernible difference in speeds. certainly more robust testing could be done, but i'll instead file it in the big ol' book of EQ urban legends.

[Tnair]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so i did two quick tests. saw how far i could run in 30 seconds on a 75 agi ogre and 70 agi ogre. could not discern any difference between them.

then i switched to a level 14 troll shaman. got myself down to just under a bubble of health(~50 hp) and again ran for 30 seconds(i think i had around 60 agi) then repeated the exact same again but this time had the agility buff on, giving a starting agility of 75.

again, no discernible difference in speeds. certainly more robust testing could be done, but i'll instead file it in the big ol' book of EQ urban legends.

Counterpoint: my p99 rogue carries around a Cat of Nine Tails whip purely for its low level agility buff proc. When significantly overencumbered while farming heavy hq ore, the agility buff makes a significant difference in run speed. The drop in run speed while encumbered is definitely tied somehow to the agility decrease. This is only significant when I'm so encumbered I am losing the ability to run (like 300/200 weight capacity)

[Robersonroger38]

Make a halflin or something with 95-100 agility, then Go to a bulb health and do the test. Also I’m Not saying the speed is increased, just saying when get super low health to we’re
Normally you will slow down, with the 95-100 agility you’ll keep your normal run speed at that low of health.

[Synthlol]

Rogue Race Tier List

Remember that we’re playing Everquest. Racial bonuses are barely significant when you look at the few cases where they are actually meaningful, e.g. Iksar Necromancer or Ogre Shaman. Outside of those handful of cases, it hardly matters in terms of gameplay. Pick the race (and gender) that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside. You’ll get more enjoyment if you just play what you like.

That being said, let’s look at what the relevant racial differences mean for the Rogue class.

S Tier: Excellent (5/5)

Gnome

PRO:

• You're a Gnome

CON:

• Weak Stats

Gnomes are weak. Their stats are bad. They don’t get a resist bonus, or really any racial bonus to speak of outside of the infravision that 70% of the races have. Gnomes get Tinkering, but Rogues can’t use Tinkering clickies. On the surface, Gnomes have nothing going for them.

If you’re in it for the long haul, though, Gnomes are the best Rogue class. Why? If you choose Gnome, you get to be a Gnome.

For free.

Forever.

Gnomes are the smallest and therefore most maneuverable race. This not only fits with the Rogue theme, it lets them navigate tight spaces the most easily, and lets them see through walls. Gnome X-ray vision is like the Ogre stun immunity. It’s just a unique bonus that can’t really be replicated by anything else in the game. Gnomes also can wear robes. If you want to be a robe-wearing Rogue, your choices are limited to Gnome, Human, and Dark Elf. Humans and Dark Elves are cool, yeah, but they’re just not Gnomes. They can’t see slip through cracks and see through walls.

If you get moderately decked out in Velious gear, you’ll hit your STR/STA/SVM targets no matter what race you are. Once that happens, how do you make your Rogue better? For most Rogues, that stretch goal dream is a Mask of Tinkering. It’s a tradeable legacy item that allows Rogues and Bards to click into a Gnome illusion. It doesn’t drop anymore. There are six on the Blue server. Unless you have millions of platinum, you won’t get the mask.

Think about it. One of the, if not the most desirable Rogue item is something that lets you look like a Gnome whenever you want. If you just pick Gnome at the character creation, you permanently receive the effect of the most expensive tradeable clicky in the game.

Gnomes are the best Rogue class.


Dwarf

PRO:

• Small Size
• Good Stats
• Best Resist Bonus
• Dwarf Roll

CON:

• None

There are a ton of amazing Dwarf Rogues. There’s a reason why. Dwarves have the best overall stats for a Rogue and are the most well-rounded Rogue race. If you just have no idea what to pick and don’t feel strongly about any race, pick Dwarf.

Dwarves have high STR/STA scores, second only to Barbarians. Their AGI is middling, but their DEX is tied for first. You’re a rogue though, so you don’t care all that much about DEX or AGI. Still, their overall physical stats are top tier. What sets them apart is the rest. While Barbarians get strong physical stats and pay for it by being tall and blind, Dwarves get good stats along with Infravision and a small, maneuverable model that fits with the Rogue theme. Male Dwarves also do a sweet somersault when they jump. The Dwarf roll is legendary, and on its own is a fine reason to roll Dwarf.

On top of all of this, Dwarves receive a resist bonus of +5 SVM and +5 SVP. Not only is this the best resist bonus of all Rogue races, it’s the best of all races, period. No other Rogue race gets a magic resist bonus, and most would agree SVM is more important for a Rogue than STR or STA. Getting poison resist on top of this is just icing on the cake. These bonus resists are especially helpful for Kunark-era raiding, and their strong physical stats make them an excellent choice for a fresh server, or if you’re just poor.

You can’t go wrong with a Dwarf Rogue.


A Tier: Good (4/5)

Barbarian

PRO:

• Best STR/STA
• Good Resist Bonus
• Slam

CON:

• Tall
• Blind
• EXP Penalty

Barbarians are a great choice for Rogue. They have the highest strength and the highest stamina base scores. They are the only rogue race with slam. They have innate +10 SVC, one of the better racial bonuses in the game because the biggest direct damage spells in the game are cold. I do value cold resist less on a rogue than on, say, a monk. A rogue should be less likely to be targeted for the big nukes, but it's still a great bonus.

On top of these advantages, the Barbarian's main disadvantages are both counteracted by the Mask of Deception. Turning into a Dark Elf lets you see in the dark and makes you not so damn tall. The only problem is that you have to keep clicking that damn mask. Like Leo, you’ll never be free of it unless one day you’re crowned king. Some players would just rather not bother. Some aren't bothered at all. Which one are you?

Don't forget that Barbarians require 5% more experience to reach each level than the baseline. They're the only Rogue race with an EXP penalty, although their penalty is just half of the Rogue class EXP bonus, so a Barbarian Rogue still needs less EXP than the baseline. They just need a little more than other Rogues.


B Tier: Okay (3/5)

Halfling

PRO:

• Small Size
• EXP Bonus
• Weak Resist Bonus

CON:

• None

Your stats are OK. AGI and DEX are fantastic, but who cares about those? STR and STA are just mediocre. +5 SVP and +5 SVD is probably the weakest resist bonus in the game. It’s marginal at best, but it’s still a resist bonus. You’re small, which is cool. Since you’re a Rogue, you don’t care about the Sneak bonus.

You have the only racial EXP bonus in the game, and one of the two basically equal class EXP bonuses in the game. That’s cool too. Pick Halfling if you want to level a little faster. Just know that the Rogue bonus is double the Halfling bonus, so you really don’t have to be a Halfing to level fast. You’ll just need a little less than other rogues.


Human

PRO:

• Robes
• Moustache

CON:

• Blind

A lot like the Barbarian, except you’re weak, have no resist bonus, can’t slam, and look way cooler. Okay, maybe not much like a Barbarian at all.

Humans kill it on style points, but not much else. Stats are mediocre. No resist bonus to help out. You’re blind, but it’s late Velious. It isn’t so hard to fix anymore. Click your mask or buy a Crown of King Tranix. You get to wear robes and look cool. What else do you want?


C Tier: Bad (2/5)

Wood Elf

PRO:

• None

CON:

• Weak Stats

Your stats are bad. You get Forage in return. Be a Wood Elf if you want to be a Wood Elf.


Half Elf

PRO:

• None

CON:

• Weak Stats

Your stats are bad. You get nothing in return. Be a Half Elf if you want to be a Half Elf.


F Tier: Terrible (1/5)

Dark Elf

PRO:

• Ultravision

CON:

• Weak Stats

Dark elves are awesome. They are the only race with Ultravision. They’re evil and look dope as hell. Neriak rules.

But Dark Elves are weak. We want to look like a Dark Elf, not actually be one, and every single Rogue can get a Mask of Deception for very little effort and look like a Dark Elf as much as they want. As was the case with Halflings, you don’t care about the Dark Elf Hide bonus. You’re already a Rogue. It's similar to the gnome situation, just in reverse. Both are awesome races with awesome models for which rogues can obtain masks which give them the respective illusion on demand. It's just that one of the masks is almost trivial to obtain, while the other one is one of the rarest and most expensive items in the game.

Dark Elf: Weak, redundant, Inefficient.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Synthlol [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rogue Race Tier List

Human

PRO:

• Robes
• Moustache

CON:

• Blind

A lot like the Barbarian, except you’re weak, have no resist bonus, can’t slam, and look way cooler. Okay, maybe not much like a Barbarian at all.

Humans kill it on style points, but not much else. Stats are mediocre. No resist bonus to help out. You’re blind, but it’s late Velious. It isn’t so hard to fix anymore. Click your mask or buy a Crown of King Tranix. You get to wear robes and look cool. What else do you want?


C Tier: Bad (2/5)

I like how the human advice is wear a robe, wear a crown, be a queen.

[Keebz]

Not a bad tier list. However, I think Dark Elves are a little better than you give them credit. They get robes, have a solid Velious helm and being evil fits the theme pretty well. Yea there's the mask, but it's not the same. Probably C tier.

Also you left off half-elves which I respect. Cursed mudbloods.

[Zeboim]

Racial bonuses that matter:

Regen
Frontal Stun Immunity
Being teeny tiny
Looking awesome

Racial bonuses that don't really matter:
Pretty much everything else